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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q. (Read 1622 times)
calledflyer
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #30 - Oct 7th, 2026 at 5:29pm
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If you'd like to hear of a potentially horrific case of sticking the wrong round into an ancient gun- you can very readily put a .44 magnum into an old Colt conversion from percussion to .44Colt. I know, because I did it into one of mine just to see. I took it out instantly- the thought of it was very sobering when you consider how many of these are out there in functioning condition but lack ammo, and some uneducated person could seek a substitute round. The modern rim is thicker, but some of thes old timers have enough room to make it go. Eeeks!
  
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frnkeore
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #31 - Oct 7th, 2026 at 6:20pm
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So, once you put a old weak rifle, into the hands of a person that would try a modern high pressure round in it, you can't discount that that type of person couldn't find some other way to destroy a rifle! Double charges, or more, are very easy to do, especially in the 44/40. So, a clearly marked rifle, I consider, as safe as anything.

There are many guns that you can put a high pressure round in. I once had a 5 round, 38 S&W that I made round ball cartridges out of 357 Mag cases so, you could do the same thing with a wad cutter 357 Mag.


  

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marlinguy
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #32 - Oct 7th, 2026 at 10:18pm
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One of the issues with most Marlin Ballard rifles is the complete absence of a cartridge designation on their barrels! It wasn't until maybe 1883or 84 that Marlin began to stamp the barrels with a cartridge designation. So often new people who buy a Ballard have to try to figure out what fits it, and that can cause huge problems if they're not experienced with checking chambers. I think I might have maybe two out of three dozen original Ballard rifles that have a cartridge stamped on their barrels. And maybe three others that were rebarreled by custom gunsmiths who marked their barrels.
  

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CW
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #33 - Oct 8th, 2026 at 11:28am
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For what it is worth, this Ballard has the barrel marked 38 LONG on the top just ahead of the action. 
It also has the pictured (39-2 on page 296 Dutcher book) Merrimack-Brown action with the two prong or maybe better described as forked hammer spring and link that pushes the hammer.

The SN is 75XX range. I would guess this rifle is an early JM Marlin rifle?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #34 - Oct 8th, 2026 at 1:04pm
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CW wrote on Oct 8th, 2026 at 11:28am:
For what it is worth, this Ballard has the barrel marked 38 LONG on the top just ahead of the action. 
It also has the pictured (39-2 on page 296 Dutcher book) Merrimack-Brown action with the two prong or maybe better described as forked hammer spring and link that pushes the hammer.

The SN is 75XX range. I would guess this rifle is an early JM Marlin rifle?


That's a very high number to have Brown Mfg. parts, and a barrel with the cartridge stamp on it. I can't help but wonder if the breech block halves serial numbers match the action number? 
Your pictures show an early JM Marlin marked frame from pre 1881, but your frame and lever are not the Brown style used in early Ballards made from leftover Brown parts. Those frames had a pin at the bottom rear and a lever with a hole in it to fit over the pin. The levers had a reverse end on the end, and not the S style as yours has also. A double mainspring would be much earlier, and out of place on a #2 in the 7500 range. And cartridge stamping didn't start until the company incorporated and the rollstamp changed to Marlin Firearms Co. There may be some chance of an early parts or pieces used later on occasion if some worker found the parts under a bench or something, but it would be very unusual.
I do own one Ballard #3 that's marked JM Marlin, but is way towards the end of production with a 36,000 range serial number. It went to England, and guessing it was a leftover receiver they found after production ended and got assembled to fill a late order.
  

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CW
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #35 - Oct 8th, 2026 at 1:09pm
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All the numbers match that I have taken the time to look at. I wasn't looking for matching numbers at the time I had it apart so I did not look at everything. I was working on getting the action unlocked from the rough ride the USPS gave the rifle during shipping to me.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #36 - Oct 8th, 2026 at 1:37pm
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Drop the breech blocks again and check those numbers. You might have something rare if those numbers match, and an example of how Marlin used up very old parts occasionally. Or it may just be a replacement breech block.
  

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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #37 - Oct 8th, 2026 at 2:12pm
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This is what a early JM Ballard, with Brown parts, should look like. Mine is #490 in 32 long with a unmarked caliber on the barrel.

It's has no rebate, Brown long hammer spur, looped back lever with a stud in the frame to hold it. It also has a stock bolt that goes threw the butt plate and tightens from the outside.

I would be surprised if Brown parts were used after #1000 but, surely after #2000
  

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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #38 - Oct 8th, 2026 at 7:07pm
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My apologies to all for misleading you. When I first opened up the Ballard action the day I received it in the mail locked up, (the lever wouldn't move) I had the Dutcher book open as I was taking the rifle apart. I booked marked the action page (296) in the Ballard book to help me find the trouble. I think the bookmark slipped and, checking back later, I referenced it as the earlier Merrimack-Brown action incorrectly. I took it apart again today and found the error.

As far as matching numbers go, maybe not that it really matters now, all that I have seen, match, though I don’t know all the places to look.

As for penance for this blunder, I will refrain from handling or shooting any neat old rifles for the next week and, not eat ice cream for a month. Not even Vanilla!!!
  
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #39 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 8:42am
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I have a pretty nice Ballard with a great bore marked 38 Long on the barrel. I sourced some 38 Long Colt brass, a friend has both Lyman and a Rapine hollow base molds that drop bullets at 160g or so, .360 in diameter. Groove diameter is .370, but the hollow base flares to engage the rifling. It sounds like it shouldn't work, but my understanding is that the ammo factories switched from heel base to hollow base at some point.
It's accurate out to 50, but groups open up at 100. I now have a couple HB molds, have bullets cast, just need to load them for testing.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #40 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 11:17am
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Frank's very early Marlin with Brown features also has a Brown style trigger in the breech block. The Brown buttplates that John Marlin inherited didn't always have the hole for the through bolt in the plates, but they are easy to discern as the crescent shape is much deeper than later Marlin made buttplates. Some that Marlin got weren't drilled yet, so those didn't get the visible through bolt like Brown used, but are the same buttplates. I have a very early JM Marlin 4 digits from Frank's and it has no hole for a through bolt, but the same shape.
Mine also has the same lever, and the pin in the frame, but I've seen numerous variations on this over the years, and various serial number ranges. Some have the hole in the receiver, but no pin in it. Some have the lever with hole, but no pin, and some don't have a hole in the lever. Just depended on the person assembling these guns mixing partially finished parts from Brown with new Marlin parts.
The stocks are one thing that's always serial numbered on the ends where stock and forearm meet the receiver. Buttplates are also serial numbered, as are receivers, barrels, and breech block tails. So lots of places to look for serial numbers.
Here's #529 that has the Brown lever, no pin, no hole, but has typical Marlin hammer, buttplate and trigger. An unusual .50-70 chambering.
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Here's #486 That has almost all Marlin features except for trigger, lever, pin, and buttplate. Buttplate has no hole for a through bolt. Very unusual 34" half octagon barrel in .45-70. This was the first Ballard I ever bought and it was a real mess. $200 at a local show, and I went to work restoring it as soon as I got it home. Stocks were trashed, and no finish anywhere. Trigger had about 1/3rd broken off and had to be tig welded up to repair it. I might have just built new stocks today if I found it, and not refinished the whole gun.
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I also have #469 that's a DST pistol grip action, so really strange to find a heavy flat side pistol grip, set triggered action that low. It has the early set triggers that the trigger plate sits down below the action. No idea of what caliber it originally was as it has Pope barrels now.
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« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2026 at 11:39am by marlinguy »  

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CW
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #41 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 6:10pm
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My Ballard #2, appears marked by Ballard, 38 LONG, was relined during the last ownership by a gunsmith he sent it to in California, years ago. It came to me listed for sale as a brand new reline and only test fired two times. Either the rifles last owner or the gunsmith decided the choice of chambering was to be 38-40 WCF. 

There are a number of possible reasons I can think of for the 38-40, but none of them make sense to me. But, it is what it is. With the rifle cam a new, unused LEE mold for 38-55. The owner told me he does not cast bullets, so????  Another unknown in a long line of unknowns.

The last owner, whom I never meet before and only talked with by email is a really good guy and in my opinion, 100% a straight shooter, and not at all wise in the way of old singleshot rifles. He bought this rifle and two others for the purpose of wall art. 

So,   ...how and why the 38-40 WCF was chosen is moot.  But now I am hoping to see if I can make it shoot, and failing that, put it on the list of winter projects to reline to something like the 32-20 WCF.

I bore-scoped the rifle as soon as I received it.  Ugly does not begin to describe it. The crown looks good and the breach and muzzle are finished neatly.  The liner, if that is what the gunsmith started with looks used, dark and complete with scratches and deep gouges the length of its 28 inches, plus it has both jacket fouling and leading. The area ahead of the chamber has places where the reamer pilot bit in and has cut down through the lands more than once as the reamer was advanced. The rim headspaces well, even a little tight which doesn't explain why a loaded round using the common Lyman bullet 40143 can be seated out so far before it is stopped by rifling, the base is only 0.050" in the case.  This assumes a reamer with the lead built into it but ?????   

OK, that does not mean it might not clean up and maybe shoot well enough to knock down silhouettes out to 100 meters. I am giving it a try! I need to replace the front sight with a globe so these aging eyes can see well enough to accurately aim the rifle.  My starting load will be 12 grains H-2400.

More to come.

  
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #42 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 7:19pm
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Is the bore and groove diameter correct for the 38-40 using an approximate .401 diameter bullet?
  
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Re: A Ballard #2 in 38 Long relined Q.
Reply #43 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 8:05pm
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Yes. 0.401"
  
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