Combined we are stronger and more venues to shoot. 

We just need to work out the details, which I think are minor…. but I know to some may think not. I believe right now the ASSRA is the only one that uses 1/2 in to score the higher (bench) every one else if tangent it scores the higher ring.

My 2 cents

I’m surprised no one mentioned re-entry matches! That’s probably one of the biggest differences. Cf matches Both use center of bullet hole for bench and both use tangent to the line for offhand. RF is the issue for center of the hole vs tangent.

the real issue is the lack of new shooters 
keep loosing old ones to health or worse and no new shooters to replace them  perhaps there could be a sub class for less costly equipment  to make shooting more affordable.  how about rifles with inserts like shilohs or cpa
for 22rf

Smoke wrote on Apr 20^th, 2026 at 10:58am:


I've often wondered if a merge would really change total numbers much? Since as you mentioned many belong to both already.

When I read my new Journal and look at the photos of the matches and review the pricing of rifles and necessary accessories one thing pops right out. I'm sure it must be obvious to you guys too.

The sport is made up generally of old retired financially very comfortable shooters. I'm 78 so fit right in on the retired and age brackets, not as much on the deep pockets and in that regard I'm not saying you need to be rich but comfortable enough to spend thousands and dedicate some time.

A young shooter raising a family, carrying a big housing nut, and a plethora of monthly bills has to find it very difficult to entertain entry into this discipline. I know there are many here that will bend over backwards to help a guy get his feet wet but if he/she is bitten by the bug the downstream participation expenses are still out there looming. Plus there is the unavoidable obstacle of distances and time to attend matches away from home and possible jobs, farms, you get my drift. And fuel costs are another nail you know where. 

In years past many of the clubs I belonged to enticed new shooters by lending out decently accurate and comfortably triggered 22 rifles. The new shooters paid only for his CCI SV ammo. A free lunch on the weekends and older mentors who really wanted to share and care.  Several clubs did similar things with teaching reloading, sighting in, mounting scopes, cleaning, shooting techniques etc. In S NH the insurance companies killed the reloading classes so three of us lost an opportunity teaching. However our Bullseye leagues were alway growing similar to Cowboy shooting. 

So think about this and various opportunities to bait and hook a new shooter. Open BBQ's, free lessons with loaned rifles, endless possibilities without having to cross political red-lines. They can start setting and retrieving targets, helping the range officer just so they feel like they belong. 

Just Spitballing
Rick

bpjack wrote on Apr 20^th, 2026 at 1:13pm:


Could you ever really walk into a gunshop and purchase a suitable rifle? (Even in the Coors days?)

I agree the this is a daunting task....however.....

Promoting a successful match would not take thousands of dollars. There are free ways to accomplish this.

There are plenty of dedicated ranges it is just a matter of promotion and knowing that you will not have Coors level participation. 

For the rimfire match in Phoenix back in January Promotion and prizes were no cost. We had 40+ participants (not bad).

In my part of the country, besides Tommy Mason's private range, the ranges open to the public have to have the rifle range shut down to accommodate a single shot match for a weekend and members complain if not allowed to shoot.  We had to share 1/2 the benches in Tacoma for a few years and lost several of our regular shooters because of this.  Yesterday we discussed for the next Tacoma matches to open up the range to any shooter after 3pm on Saturday and 1 pm on Sunday to help with th complaints.

When I win the next Powerball lottery, I will build a private range like Tommy had and hold weeklong matches any time I want.

watchthewind wrote on Apr 20^th, 2026 at 1:41pm:

Yes.  In San Diego, until it closed in 1988 the Last Frontier gun shop in Valley Center and its predecessor, the original Frontier Gun Shop at Swift and University in North Park, usually had schuetzen rifles for sale, often more than one.  Other shops would have them from time to time as well.

bnice wrote on Apr 19^th, 2026 at 8:57pm:


What Bob said.  ISSA matches are shoulder to shoulder for the most part.   
Some of the side or "fun" matches are reentry.  I personally would have no problem scoring Rimfire Benchrest as "half a caliber in".

Regards,
Joe

I dont think Targets are really an issue. ISSA targets used to only go out as far as the ASSRA targets do. it was a good change instead of the "score it a 10 if on paper". The red line is also a good change to give you a chance to see if the shot nicks the target. That said Randy made the comment that the ISSA is all about match shooting. That is the difference between the two org.s. I grew up a match (shoulder to shoulder) shooter. I think the ASSRA is a completely different style of match shooting, its more relaxed, with no time limits, re-entrys, shooting what match you want when or if you want. I like it but I like the good old match shooting to. Why do you think we should merge to make changes to each other? If anything maybe  ASSRA clubs  (and Etna) should have a few ISSA style matches a year, like regionals. The ISSA to me has not helped it self through the years by not having memberships (funding?) and things to make people see whats going on (you have to promote yourself to be noticed), as Randy stated NO active website or magazine. Most people don't know who they are. They are bigger out west because they continue to stay at Raton but that has not helped them grow. Its expensive to go to Raton, especially for people to travel from the far east even the midwest. But thats true to go to Etna for the people out west. Also the matches in Raton have changed and going away from Offhand (because we are all getting Older) and yet you want to get rid of coats which can help keep us in the game longer? Well JMO but I think we need to just look at what we have and see what is causing the declines instead of thinking joining is going to make a big difference in interest. 

Again JMO which isnt worth much.

I've been into old single shot target rifles for many decades now, and back when I started scheutzen rifles were still tough to find, and expensive. BPCR type rifles for mid or long range were much easier to find, and still are much easier to find. 
Nobody today shows an offering for offhand scheutzen rifles, and if they did you'd have to wait a long time while they built it. That's simply because of the lack of demand for that type of rifle, and the demand is lower because they're purpose built and aren't something a guy uses for anything besides matches. Many guys use their BPCR rifles for matches, but also use them for hunting occasionally. I know I loved hunting with single shots that I shot in long range shoots also. But I'm also a guy who took my Ballard Union Hill in .38-55 out and shot a mule deer with it.
In my younger days, with a bunch of small kids my gun budget was extremely limited, and so was my time. But I set aside what I could in funds and time to acquire some nice old single shots I still own. I'm not sure most younger guys are willing to do the same these days? I've had 5 nice old single shot rifles on the table at our local collector gun show the last two months and nobody even asked to pick one up to look at. But I put an 1893 Marlin on the table Sunday and it was gone before the show started at my asking price.

We need to promote the sport and make it easier to get started. We would be better off collaborating as opposed to arguing over rules which would only result in friction which would be counterproductive .
My two cents fwiw
Joe s

RJ-35-40 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:31pm:


When I go to the club range to shoot a scheutzen rifle there are almost always a few guys who are curious about what I'm shooting, but most seem hesitant to come over and ask questions. If I bring in a new scheutzen rifle to the club house on volunteer day most people don't take a second look at it, and those who do are baffled by what they're seeing. 
Our monthly collector gun shows are pretty much the same thing. I get people who are extremely interested, but most walk right by any display of scheutzen rifles with puzzled looks on their faces.

RJ-35-40 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:31pm:

A movie like Quigley Down Under or Jeremiah Johnson set against the background of a Schuetzenfest would be good.
Joe /

What exactly would be the benefit of merging the two associations? We would still have the same number of shooters. There will be a number of malcontents on both sides who will be unhappy with the concessions that were made and a certain amount of animosity will linger. I fail to see any benefit to this. 
Furthermore, I think there is some benefit to having the two separate groups. You can come and go as you please and shoot both ways, shoulder to shoulder or re-entry as you please. 

We all seem to agree that we need more shooters and that there is a financial obstacle to getting started.  I respectfully suggest that we close ranks and work on those two issues.
I dont remember the actual catch words, but it goes something like this, "advertising has to be consistent and persistent". Right now we have neither. We are not likely to get a movie like Quigly Down Under to spark interest in single shots, so we need another approach. Social Media is the rage these days and I know nothing about it and dont want to know, but there has to be someone in our ranks that can come up with some ideas. All kinds of crazy things get passed around on social media, we need to get something off the ground. We should prepare a general format so that we can convey the ideas and concepts we want to convey, so that the message is consistent. 
If we can manage it, some articles in American Rifleman or other old fashioned print media would help, along with some exposure on "Wednesday Night at the Range" on the Outdoor Channel. 
For many years, I have been setting up at gun shows. For the last several years, I have set up a simple "Schuetzenfest " display with photos, a few rifles and some of our special accoutrements such as breech seaters, molds and barrel clamps. 
We get well over two thousand walk ins on a Saturday, and I get about ten or 15 who stop and ask questions, and usually two or three to take membership applications. Not sure how many follow through but you have to plant the seed and hope it grows. 
Right now, if we had four or five new shooters at either of the two Schuetzenfests I regularly attend, they might be on a waiting list, so finding new ranges and clubs to sponsor events is another thing we need to do. 
It costs me about $40 to rent a table, and I do it three times per year. I enjoy being at the show for the social interaction with like minded people, so the table rent is not an obstacle for me. 
To be continued..
Joe S