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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers (Read 958 times)
watchthewind
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ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Apr 19th, 2026 at 5:43pm
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So today a few of us were sitting around discuss the past, present and future of our sport. Then the up sprang the idea of merging the ASSRA and ISSA into one organization to better concentrate efforts. (Certainly this is not the first time.) 

As this was hashed out sticking points including scoring, shooting coats and targets were brought up.
So what sort of compromise or agreement could be made? 

Are shooting coats really that big of an issue? How often do you see someone on the firing line of an ASSRA match with a shooting coat. I've seen 2 people use them. One is now deceased.

Next are (IMHO) the real issues scoring and the targets. This is where give and take would really be necessary. In regards to the ASSRA Rimfire Benchrest rules one half or more than the impacted round must print in the higher scorings ring for it to be score higher. Then the ISSA uses a target where you can hit the paper and as long as it is outside of the scoring area then you may take another shot at the target.

Upon research and discussion no other shooting organizations/disciplines score or use targets like this? Why not use a common target and scoring method? Using the ASSRA Target and scoring leaded edge/tangent would make the most sense. Common targets, scoring, rules etc....could only benefit our sport. Perhaps we may see more participants shoot both sanctioned organizations. Perhaps misconceptions and falsehoods about the "other" organization could finally be put to rest. Perhaps resulting in greater participation in matches at Etna Green and/or Raton.

Now it's only a matter of buy in from each organization and getting the leadership together. Hopefully they can see the big picture and help preserve our traditions for generations to come.

Scott

  

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Bob259
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #1 - Apr 19th, 2026 at 7:34pm
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Combined we are stronger and more venues to shoot. 

We just need to work out the details, which I think are minor…. but I know to some may think not. I believe right now the ASSRA is the only one that uses 1/2 in to score the higher (bench) every one else if tangent it scores the higher ring.

My 2 cents
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #2 - Apr 19th, 2026 at 8:14pm
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Back in the day.....

I remember when it was just one outfit. - I’d welcome betting back to that, no matter what arrangements were used.

CHRIS
  
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bnice
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #3 - Apr 19th, 2026 at 8:57pm
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I’m surprised no one mentioned re-entry matches! That’s probably one of the biggest differences. Cf matches Both use center of bullet hole for bench and both use tangent to the line for offhand. RF is the issue for center of the hole vs tangent.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #4 - Apr 19th, 2026 at 9:38pm
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RF BR scoring should always be center of impact. I've gone round and round with guy's on this matter for a very long time and the only reason I can see for using "leaded edge" is that many guy's like to feel that they shot better BR scores than they actually did!

Most just say it's easier but, I defy them to prove it. I've scored both ways and I actually think it's harder to define that leaded edge over judging the center.

Regarding merging, I don't think that the ASSRA could bring themselves, to ever do that, even though it would be good for this dying sport.

ASSRA would have to humble itself and even though humility is a sign of the best that mankind has to offer, I doubt that ASSRA could do it. I hope I'm wrong, I would like to see it happen.

The Coors Match, is what "made" this sport what it is today and that became ISSA. This sport has been on the decline since the end of the Coors Matches. Slow at first but, much faster now.

Nobody knows what "Schuetzen Matches" are now but, in the days of Coors almost ALL shooters knew Schuetzen, because of the Coors matches.

This sport needs PROMOTION!!! The combined ASSRA/ISSA could help that and at least make it easier to do.

Also, one of the main founding factors was OH, especially the 100 shot match! Put the money up and the shooter will come.

Most of us near ODG's don't have any offspring that are interested in these wonderful rifles, why not create a fund for the promotion and prize money from that source.
  

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art_ruggiero
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #5 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 8:31am
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the real issue is the lack of new shooters 
keep loosing old ones to health or worse and no new shooters to replace them  perhaps there could be a sub class for less costly equipment  to make shooting more affordable.  how about rifles with inserts like shilohs or cpa
for 22rf
  
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J.Francis
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #6 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 9:01am
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As a 3P and 4P shooter I can say with certainty that a shooting coat makes a big difference in all positions, especially offhand. If more people used them they would notice the difference immediately.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #7 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 11:01am
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Smoke wrote on Apr 20th, 2026 at 10:58am:
You don't need to merge the ISSA and ASSRA.  Most of the members of the former are already members of the ASSRA.



I've often wondered if a merge would really change total numbers much? Since as you mentioned many belong to both already.
  

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watchthewind
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #8 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 12:29pm
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It would be interesting to take this year's list of ISSA participants and then compare to the ASSRA member roster. 

Additionally it is not just about current member.s It is about potential future members and structures in place that could be mutually beneficial.

The ISSA has an established relationship with The Whittington Center and has an overall stronger presence in the Western part of the United States while the ASSRA has one in the Midwest and Eastern states.

The ASSRA has a better means of promotion, ie. Journal, a robust webpage and Forum. The ISSA is lacking in this area. For example the ISSA is reportedly holding a Black Powder Benchrest match this year with a $500 prize. I don't see this promoted on their webpage or in Modern Black Powder Rifle Cartridge. This event is supposed to increase participation and reach out to other closely related shooting disciplines. If know one knows about it then your efforts are in vain.



  

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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #9 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 12:41pm
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When I read my new Journal and look at the photos of the matches and review the pricing of rifles and necessary accessories one thing pops right out. I'm sure it must be obvious to you guys too.

The sport is made up generally of old retired financially very comfortable shooters. I'm 78 so fit right in on the retired and age brackets, not as much on the deep pockets and in that regard I'm not saying you need to be rich but comfortable enough to spend thousands and dedicate some time.

A young shooter raising a family, carrying a big housing nut, and a plethora of monthly bills has to find it very difficult to entertain entry into this discipline. I know there are many here that will bend over backwards to help a guy get his feet wet but if he/she is bitten by the bug the downstream participation expenses are still out there looming. Plus there is the unavoidable obstacle of distances and time to attend matches away from home and possible jobs, farms, you get my drift. And fuel costs are another nail you know where. 

In years past many of the clubs I belonged to enticed new shooters by lending out decently accurate and comfortably triggered 22 rifles. The new shooters paid only for his CCI SV ammo. A free lunch on the weekends and older mentors who really wanted to share and care.  Several clubs did similar things with teaching reloading, sighting in, mounting scopes, cleaning, shooting techniques etc. In S NH the insurance companies killed the reloading classes so three of us lost an opportunity teaching. However our Bullseye leagues were alway growing similar to Cowboy shooting. 

So think about this and various opportunities to bait and hook a new shooter. Open BBQ's, free lessons with loaned rifles, endless possibilities without having to cross political red-lines. They can start setting and retrieving targets, helping the range officer just so they feel like they belong. 

Just Spitballing
Rick
  
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #10 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 1:13pm
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I am fairly pessimistic about the future of our sport. First off you can’t walk into a gun store and find a new or used rifle suitable for CF shooting at least in my area. I have seen the occasional.22 but they are even rare. At Tacoma we haven’t had more than 6 or 7 shooters for our spring and fall two day matches for years. The few local members who show up with their hunting or black rifles that didn’t check the calendar to see where was a match sometimes are curious but show no interest in even trying a few shots when they hear what a rifle would cost and the other issues like casting etc. after Al long run the matches at Tommy Mason’s range are done and I doubt they will come back unless they become all rimfire. After Covid we lost most of the Canadians and went from 35 shooters to under 16. I have started shooting the Puyallup CBA matches again but they have gone to only having 5 this year and two of the regulars passed in the last 6 months and another couple just indicated they are done due to health issues. There is a match this Thursday and there may only be 3 or 4 shooting plain base breech seated bullets.  At 77 with back issues I am not going to be traveling out of state most likely. 
Just my observations with no answers I know. 
Around here you could throw a few thousand $$$ into promoting matches and even more $$ on prizes and most likely not get any results. I am happy to see more interest back east. 
I started with single shots with black powder ctg matches and they seem to be more popular but still few and far between. The  Quigley is very popular. Dedicated ranges would help. The Tacoma range is getting harder to reserve the entire high power venue for a weekend when only 6 people show up.   
Maybe a Harry Pope bobble head would help. 

Time for my morning nap. 

Jack
  

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watchthewind
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #11 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 1:41pm
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bpjack wrote on Apr 20th, 2026 at 1:13pm:
First off you can’t walk into a gun store and find a new or used rifle suitable for CF shooting at least in my area. I have seen the occasional.22 but they are even rare.   

Around here you could throw a few thousand $$$ into promoting matches and even more $$ on prizes and most likely not get any results. I am happy to see more interest back east. 
 
The Quigley is very popular. Dedicated ranges would help. 



Could you ever really walk into a gunshop and purchase a suitable rifle? (Even in the Coors days?)

I agree the this is a daunting task....however.....

Promoting a successful match would not take thousands of dollars. There are free ways to accomplish this.

There are plenty of dedicated ranges it is just a matter of promotion and knowing that you will not have Coors level participation. 

For the rimfire match in Phoenix back in January Promotion and prizes were no cost. We had 40+ participants (not bad).



  

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RSW
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #12 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 2:10pm
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One of the issues keeping the ASSRA and ISSA separate is the purpose of each organization, IMO. ASSRA covers the totality of things single shot rifles and other firearms, history, archiving, match shooting, collecting, gunsmithing, reloading, bullet casting, let me not forget our great ASSRA Journal magazine, etc. The ISSA is about match shooting. To be specific - several regional matches leading up to the annual Schuetzenfest at the NRA Whittington Center each summer. That's about it for the ISSA.
As others have stated, the issues that would need to be resolved are:
- ISSA scoring rings go out to the edge of the target (that red line around the perimeter is the target edge). We ISSA guys like our targets but the ASSRA targets are super targets and stand on their own merit.
- ISSA 22RF bullet holes are scored from the leaded edge for both BR and OH events.
- Shooting coats allowed for ASSRA, not for ISSA
I could go into why the ISSA does things the way it does but those were mostly set in place back in the 1982-84 time frame.
While I understand the positives of merging the two organizations (for the upteenth time) I don't really see compelling benefits for either group. Also, many ISSA shooters (me included) are long time ASSRA members.
  

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bpjack
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #13 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 2:23pm
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In my part of the country, besides Tommy Mason's private range, the ranges open to the public have to have the rifle range shut down to accommodate a single shot match for a weekend and members complain if not allowed to shoot.  We had to share 1/2 the benches in Tacoma for a few years and lost several of our regular shooters because of this.  Yesterday we discussed for the next Tacoma matches to open up the range to any shooter after 3pm on Saturday and 1 pm on Sunday to help with th complaints.

When I win the next Powerball lottery, I will build a private range like Tommy had and hold weeklong matches any time I want.

  

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watchthewind
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Re: ASSRA and ISSA There Is Strength In Numbers
Reply #14 - Apr 20th, 2026 at 2:23pm
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Randy this is a great constructive response. Perhaps collaboration between the ASSRA and ISSA is the answer to grow our sport/preserve our traditions?
Now what would that collaborative effort look like?
Scott
  

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