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burntwater
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25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Feb 15th, 2026 at 3:45pm
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With all the shooters running 25-20 SS these days I'm  guessing this subject has been hammered to death. But in my forum search I couldn't  find as many answers as I hoped for. So let me ask a bit. 

Why is the 25-20 SS more desirable than the 25-20 WCF. Is it the longer tapered case with guessing greater powder capacity and easier breach seating, if it really is ? Is case life, especially necks, an issue with the sharp shouldered bottle neck WCR design. I shot the 218 Bee for years with no neck splitting problems and it's  very similar.

Since both cases are head spacing on the rim and not the shoulder I can't see why this could be an issue unless rim thickness varies much. I've heard breach seating bullets is much easier with the near straight walled tapered SS case but why, if at all, is breach seating troublesome with the WCF shouldered case ? 

Does the longer powder column of the old 25-20 SS burn more uniform with better accuracy. Are the pressures between the two equivalent or close 
Together 

Finally is anybody shooting the 25-20 WCF and if so how is accuracy compared to the 25-20 SS ? Are there any quirks with the WCF cartridge like bullet design, weight hardness, powder selection, neck tension- thickness with case seated bullets. So if you guys don't care for this cartridge then why ? Anything else that could help is appreciated. 

Rick
  
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bullshop
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #1 - Feb 15th, 2026 at 6:48pm
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All good questions that I too would like to see answers to.  As of about a week now I am shooting a 25-20 SS. I have been shooting a 25-20 WCF for many years but neither in any kind of competition. I seek loads more in line with hunting small game and pests.
One thing I can say about the two cartridges is that I believe the 25-20 WCF has been loaded to far higher pressures that what seems acceptable for the SS. That is pretty easy to see in you look at suggested loads and velocities for both cartridges using the same bullet weights.
I load the Lyman # 257420 bullet to well over 2000 fps for a Winchester model 1892 rifle in WCF but the highest velocity loads I have found with that bullet for the SS max out at about 1600 fps.
I have a Stevens model 44 that has been sleeved to the WCF but I will set a velocity limit in that rifle at about 1500 fps with the same bullet and maybe better to stay around 1300 fps.
  It depends on the launch platform on what chamber pressures should be.  Consider that I load a 2-R Lovell in a model 70 Winchester to about 3200 fps with a 50 grain jacketed bullet using the very same Jamison 25-20 SS brass. The model 70 is about a 60,000 psi launch platform where as even the strongest of the original Stevens rifles the model 44 1/2 falls well short of that limit by about 30%. I think if the 25-20 SS was chambered in something of similar strength as the Model 70 Win then it could move to a different class of cartridge somewhat similar to the 25 Copperhead in ballistic performance.
  
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jimmy
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2026 at 7:28pm
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There are some quarter bore shooters that should respond. I was under the impression that more people use the WCF due to brass availability.
  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2026 at 7:38pm
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I shoot with quarter bore guys, and some are looking at switching from the wcf  to 25-35, main reason is the case is longer, so less issues with dumping loose powder in the action. I have seen the guys shooting jn the high 240's, and a couple 250's i think. I was advised to stay away from the 25-20 SS for 2 main reasons, brass availability,  and barrel twists. The original rifles in the SS were slower twists, so you have to keep the bullet weight down. The WCF is easy to get chambered in a 1:10 and shoot heavier.

If you are building from scratch, and have the brass, i don't know that there would be a detriment to building a fast twist SS
  
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bpjack
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2026 at 7:46pm
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I have a fast twist RKS built high wall in 25 Hornet that is very accurate.  Easy to form brass from 22 Hornet. I use 120gr Paul Jones bullets.
  

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burntwater
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2026 at 9:48pm
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Thanks guys I'm thinking

Rick
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2026 at 10:59pm
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I had a .25 RKS with a 122 grain bullet which was designed for a 9:1 twist barrel. I loaded it up to 1,826 fps but such loads are not possible in the older .25-20 SS. The older style case neck walls are not very thick and were designed for much smaller bullets and lighter loads. Those deciding to use the traditional .25-20 WCF versus the .25-20 SS frequently prefer the WCF due to the availability of brass. There have been extended timeframes when .25-20 SS cases could not be found.
Most quarterbore shooters today are getting better results up around 1600 fps in rifles modified with tighter twist barrels so many have converted to heavier cases instead of using the older weaker .25-20 cases.
  
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JerryH
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #7 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 2:09am
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Nineteen 250 QB targets shot with a 25-20 WCF in the last 13 years. Rifle is a CPA with a Douglas 10 twist barrel. A Mos 120 gr. bullet at ~1650 fps breech seated works. R-P brass is absolutely required. 

Eighteen were shot at 200 yards, with one shot at 100 yards. 

The one I am most proud of is the 200 yard Iron Sight 250 target. 

I also have scored 1240 out of 1250 twice in a 50 shot match with the same rifle. You need to average 248 for five targets to score 1240.

So,yes, the 25-20WCF is a competitive cartridge and will give you excellent results, if you commit to constant trigger time. 

When I was in my prime I was shooting two matches a month and 3 to 4 practice days between matches. Now it's just match day and I'm happy to shoot a 246 or 247. 

« Last Edit: Feb 16th, 2026 at 2:23am by JerryH »  

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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #8 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 7:46am
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My experience hasn't been very extensive but I have several good Stevens barrels in .25-20 SS, a Winchester SS relined to .25-20SS, a Stevens 44 originally in the caliber with the barrel shortened at the breech and rechambered for .25-20 WCF and a Savage 23B in the latter caliber.

I found that the Winchester factory 86-gr lead loads in the 44 were very accurate but it was noticeably harder getting the same accuracy with handloads in the same cases with the usual canister powders and 86-gr cast bullets than it was getting the same accuracy with the SS chamberings in the other barrels.  I could get there, but it took more experimentation to find THE load, whereas the SS rifles were much more tolerant of a wider range of powders and loads.

The Savage has the factory military style peep sight. I haven't it loaded as extensively with 86-gr cast; I use jacketed bullets more in it.

These were all the old 13"-14" barrel twists, not any modern tighter ones, and I've pretty much gone to 60-to 77-gr cast bullets in all of them.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #9 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 8:36am
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Factory loads in 25-20 WIN are too “hot” for some of the old 25-20 SS.

CHRIS
  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #10 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 8:58am
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rgchristensen wrote on Feb 16th, 2026 at 8:36am:
Factory loads in 25-20 WIN are too “hot” for some of the old 25-20 SS.

CHRIS

Factory smokeless 25-20 WCf loads are too hot for a fair amount of original/early rifles chambered for it.

  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #11 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 9:01am
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25-20wcf vs 25-20SS - - brass, twist, pressure vs the "Oooooooooo" factor.
  

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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #12 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 11:35am
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35-40 years ago I built up several 25-20WCF rifles on model 44 actions and I will repete what many have said on the subject, tread carefully. Approximately half of the ten I built came back shot loose in spite of the link pins being up graded, tight breachblocks AND me warning the owners about how to load for them. I finally refused to do any more. However my personal #44 in WCF swallowed a lot  of handloads using the Lyman 258420 bullet and either 4 G or Unique or 7G of 4227of IMR persuasion. Either load is lighter than some 1990s vintage 25-20 factory loads that I have been hoarding since I hadmy shop.
Recently I have built up 2 #44s in 25-20 SS using very nice original Stevens barrels and am using the same bullet in the SS version in Bertram brass and both seem to like the 7G of 4227 load in early testing.
  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #13 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 12:43pm
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Steve and JerryH talking pressure and I'm listening since that is almost always the make or break element with old SS's and most newer firearms. So let me step into your brains for a minute and ask what are reasonable workable pressures for an old model 44. Though I positively lack the technical depth of most who visit here I'm sure I can follow. 

I've had 22 Hornets and K- Hornets loving the later most. I had one custom 218 Bee that I loved also and they both ran around 30-34K pressure. Now I have a 44 in 38-55 and you guys have warned me about pressure and longevity so I load soft for it with 4198, Unique and 4759 guessing 20-25k psi an educated guess. I also load 2ff BP at lower pressure when I have the yearning. Can't help myself with BP I think it's like an aphrodisiac. But I'm seriously contemplating a small 25 cal on a Stevens 44. 

In your experience what level of pressure is likely to batter a 44's pins. What pressure gave you performance and accuracy without worrying about excess wear ? And lastly as I noted I have a old nice 44 in 38-55 but also a CPA in 38-55 so should I or could I load the same for both guns and expect similar results to 200 yards ?

I was thinking about a 44 with a shot out/corroded barrel but what do you think about just having CPA make me a swap barrel for my 44 1/2. Haven't run the cost numbers just spitballing now. Then again what about the 25 Hornet ? Though I'd like to stay away from anymore wildcats. 

As always I appreciate the combined wisdom offered on this forum

Rick

« Last Edit: Feb 16th, 2026 at 12:58pm by burntwater »  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #14 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 1:31pm
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I have been talking with a fellow that told me he has acquired nearly 200 of these type single shot rifles.  He told me his favorite of all is a Stevens 44 that has been converted from 25 RF to 25 CF. He said he uses shortened 22 hornet brass. He considers it to be the perfect squirrel gun.
  
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burntwater
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #15 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 1:59pm
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Thanks that reassuring info but I have my perfect squirrel rifle a T/C Cherokee 32 cal muzzle loader with double set and great balance. My first Cherokee burned up when T/C's big shop went up in flames years ago. It was in for new wood, a back door job from a friend and neighbor who worked there so the rifle did not exist on the books so not covered. Found another three years ago so my Fox, gray and black squirrel population knows it

Rick
  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #16 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 2:21pm
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Planning to rechamber my 25 Hornet to 25-20 W. I'm finding Hornet brass to fragile. 

Also fitting two barrels to my takedown Ballard. Will be 25-20W and 8.15X46R.
  

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burntwater
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #17 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 4:51pm
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Ain't that a bitch casehead seperation. My first Hornet was a beat up Winchester 43 that had a headspace problem, I learned later. As you know the brass is notoriously thin and weak and I ruined about 10-12 cases all from bad headspacing.  I was young and stupid and just figured I was loading too much WW 680, too hot. My cases all looked like yours. Then I got a T/C 83' and had T/C make a K Hornet out of it. Never had brass problems again. Love the K Hornet. 

Rick
  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #18 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 7:08pm
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Rick, I'm sure someone will point out that it is not just a matter of pressure but also back thrust that keys on the diameter of the rimmed case plus the pressure. Someone give him the math on that.
  
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Re: 25-20 SS. Vs 25-20 WCF
Reply #19 - Feb 16th, 2026 at 7:34pm
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No, please no math for me. I should have mentioned that my chamber is oversize. IF it were smaller the thin Hornet brass would stand up much better. My kiss fix is to rechamber to 25-20 Winchester because I have brass and a chamber reamer. Keep it simple stupid for me. Math just confuses me.
  

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