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Bulseyetom
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45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Jan 1st, 2026 at 8:29pm
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Dumb but happy. I was wondering how long the straight portion of the case is for the 45-70 and 45-90?  Looking at the case drawings it shows a straight taper from the end but it seems like to get any kind of uniform tension seating a bullet it should have a parallel end for awhile.  Tom Huh
  
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #1 - Jan 1st, 2026 at 10:07pm
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It this what you’re talking about?

Tom Klinger
  
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Bulseyetom
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #2 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 12:02am
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That's it! I would assume that the 45-90 has the same o.400" cylindrical section.  Thanks.  Tom
  
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #3 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 7:41am
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SAMMI and most other reamers do not have the cylinder section. You need to have it cut that way when you order a reamer.
Dan T designed it into all of his match caliber reamers. I use it on all the reamers I order…


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Bulseyetom
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #4 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 12:58pm
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So with that in mind how does the normal 45-70 full length sizing die work on a tapered fired case?  This design seems far superior to allow using insider brass and finger seating.  Tom
  
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #5 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 4:37pm
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If you resize, neck size only.Then use a straight expander die. It will make the case neck straight to match the conical cut chamber.
With this style chamber reamer, you shouldn’t need to resize after firing. Finger seat the bullet and maybe slightly flair the neck for easier bullet seating. Then remove the flair.


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frnkeore
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #6 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 5:19pm
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The Dan T chamber is pretty good but, I believe it should be at least .010 longer, to account for case stretch and case growth. Of course you can cut your cases .010 shorter, too.

The other thing I think could be improved, is the lead, into the rifling. I think it would be better on bullet deformation, when engraving the rifling, if it were no more that 1.5° per side or 3° included. It would also cut down on the amount of pressure it takes to chamber a round.
  

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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #7 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 5:50pm
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frnkeore wrote on Jan 2nd, 2026 at 5:19pm:
The Dan T chamber is pretty good but, I believe it should be at least .010 longer, to account for case stretch and case growth. Of course you can cut your cases .010 shorter, too.

The other thing I think could be improved, is the lead, into the rifling. I think it would be better on bullet deformation, when engraving the rifling, if it were no more that 1.5° per side or 3° included. It would also cut down on the amount of pressure it takes to chamber a round.


I agree Frank. I think one and a half degrees is better than three. I had my bpcr reamers ground with one and a half degrees and they shot very well. I had several conversations with Dave Manson at Manson reamers and he said Theodore talked to him quite a bit about what he thought they should be and I think he took a lot of advice from Dave. Dave told me that 3° for the 45-70 is better if you're going to shoot both cast bullets and jacketed bullets.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #8 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 5:56pm
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I remember talking to Dan about his thoughts on leade angles.  He was of the opinion that 1.5 degrees is too shallow for fixed ammunition, but he didn't elaborate.   

I can say that Zack Taylor has done a lot of winning in the long range BPTR game with that exact chamber and a Money bullet that Dan designed to go with it.   

What sort of leade angles are common in the CBA matches?  I imagine those guys have the most accurate fixed ammo cast rifles?

Chris.


  
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Old-Win
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #9 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 6:01pm
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I think it's got more to do with the shooter and his spotter than the leade angle in bpcr. A lot of the Lodi guys shoot nothing more than the standard chamber that Shiloh has in their rifles. I know that Mark Schuenke and Cliff Gregg have become a formidable pair and they have done well at the winter matches in Phoenix. I've shot next to them several times and it was amazing to listen to them and the wind calls that they gave each other but yet each one seemed to keep him the shooter in the center of the paper. I would guess Steve Fehringer has nothing special going on with his barrel either.  I wonder if Dave Gullo even knows what leade angle is in his rifles. Smiley
« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2026 at 7:03pm by Old-Win »  
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gunlaker
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #10 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 7:12pm
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Yeah you are likely right, but you do need a really accurate rifle.  I started by playing around with a bunch of different rifles and ideas until one relay where I wasn't shooting and I sat down behind Bryan Youngberg and Robert Garibay at the 1000 yard line at Ben Avery.  Bryan was getting 10 and x's one after the other.  I became a Shiloh convert after that.  I fortunately had the opportunity to shoot with Bryan a number of times, as well as a few of the Wyoming regulars Smiley.  I do believe that the Shiloh chambers are near optimal for BPCR.  I've shot my 40-65 from prone on the German ring target with BP and had results similar to my CPA's with smokeless.

The only exception I've found is the Shiloh 45-70 chamber.  I've owned 3 of them and none are as accurate as the 40-65's & 45-90's.  I think part of it is they are a bit looser.

Although I do agree that the straight section on Dan's chamber design does seem like a good idea.  The Shiloh's aren't set up that way, but I'd put my 40-65's and 45-90 up against any other BP rifle I've ever seen. 

Chris.
   
  
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Re: 45-70 and 45-90 neck length
Reply #11 - Jan 2nd, 2026 at 8:25pm
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Bulseyetom wrote on Jan 1st, 2026 at 8:29pm:
Dumb but happy. I was wondering how long the straight portion of the case is for the 45-70 and 45-90?  Looking at the case drawings it shows a straight taper from the end but it seems like to get any kind of uniform tension seating a bullet it should have a parallel end for awhile.  Tom Huh


This has been a subject I’ve always been interested in since writing the book on the Browning BPCRs.  For their .45-70 chamber, being SAAMI members, they used the SAAMI chamber specs which uniformly tapers from just in front of the rim recess to the chamber mouth, followed by a 12-degree 45-minute transition step to the bore with no leade.  Their .45-90 (no SAAMI spec) has essentially the same chamber but, of course, a bit longer, followed by freebore (extended throat) and a 1.5-degree leade.  Therefore, for both chambers, the chamber taper essentially matches the case wall taper.  So, even after fireforming, the inside diameter of the case neck is uniform resulting in the same tension throughout the length of a straight-diameter bullet.  But that’s not the same with their .40-65 Win chamber.

Since the .40-65 Win. is not specified by SAAMI, Browning designed the chamber with a cylindrical (constant diameter) neck followed by freebore & a 1.5-degree lead.  Due to the cylindrical chamber neck, to get uniform neck tension, the case should 1st be fireformed, then the neck outside turned or, better yet, inside reamed with a chucking reamer to a uniform case wall thickness.  Since this is similar to the Dan Theodore chamber design with cylindrical neck, the same case preparation should be used for the DanTDesigns chambers.

Wayne

« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2026 at 1:46am by texasmac »  

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