Thinking about a Tube Unertl for club offhand 200 yard steel matches. Target is the NRA Ram same dimensions as lever silhouette target hung from chains. Hit or miss 40 shots.

Have been shooting this match very long time with a CPA 38/55 Post and Bead front Tang rear with adjustable arpeture. My average scores started around 32 hits improved to 36 staying at that level until about 70 years old. Now 78 years old scores average 32 to 34.

Difference is used to get clear focus on the front small bead, settling off swinging the rifle into the target could pick the exact spot I wanted on the target & break the shot. Calling the strike exactly where it hit. We run 3 shooters in a relay, off relay 2 with spotting scopes &  spotting board with push pins 3rd is the score keeper. 10 shots then switch. All finished move to the next Ram 4 hung for the match,

Now my eyes don't focus front as sharp as they used to. Fuzzy front means good chance of miss reading elevation, targets body is about 2O inches high. My offhand groups were about 7 moa or 14 inches high. Windage not as important target much wider than high. Shooting at the whole target not picking a spot makes it more of a shotgun game. Sending a pattern down range some hit others don't.

Using low power scopes Unertl 3 x small game or MVA 5 x can hit high 30's again 36-38 strikes average. The scope can give a distinct cross hair and clear sharp focus on the target. Irons with prescription glasses it's one or the other not both.

Long story need a simple answer. Does a tube sight improve vision to allow more focus depth same as a magnifying sight. Match rules no optics, Tube may or may not be allowed, there's no magnification but acceptance remains to be seen. Not worried about it we allow non conforming  outfits, not eligible for match place or awards. 

Reply's with advice appreciated 

Boats

This sure sounds like a fun game! 
Val, I'm confused about your tube sight. All that I have experience with just have a threaded hole for the apature/merit disk in the back.  I have seen them with baffles towards the front to control light.  And the tube sight is used with a conventional front target sight. 
One of the great advantages of a tube sight is the height of the center of the sight is identical to a unertl scope and the windage and elevation adjustments as well. 
So the fit of the rifle to you is identical with both iron and scope

Good points than I need to look into. On Unertl's think I will look for a manual or spec's how they are sighted Post and bead X hair either one. I use either without problem on modern Silhouettes as well as a single dot reticle. Have used front arpeture a lot too, Smallbore prone. But it's on a bullseye target from a steady position. Easy to get a centered ring of light around the nice nice black bullseye.  When I've tried arpeture on Silhouette it's back to can't place the bullet on a spot. 

Side note some have asked me why not just use a scope if it's allowed, not for score. The match has been running monthly since the early 1960's at the Fairfax Va club adding Cavalier in Montpelier Va 1980's both same rules Single Shot cast bullets only . Then latter adding Rimfire at ether 75 or 100 yards monthly . All 4 monthly matches targets are scaled to be identical. Can handle 28 -32 shooters at a match depending on the range width. Often full in good  weather.

Number of us believe if magnifying scopes are allowed soon  they will be on most rifles and change the match forever. Many matches have been ruined by equipment races. Modern Silhouette around here has for sure. Tube's that's possible too but they don't magnify. And will still require a competent shot to score well.

Boats

Thanks your response that's what I wanted to hear. 

I have two MVA Hadleys and it's easy to make an adaptor to mount on any tube. What about the front of the tube, Post and bead, crosshair, interchangeable  ?  I could make an adaptor to fit most target fronts & use it's inserts for any number of sight pictures.

Meanwhile looking on line this morning to see how Unertl tubes are set up.

Boats

I would like to see some pictures when your project is complete!


Merry Christmas all!

Tom Klinger

Thats true, I remember a silhouette committee meeting at the Rimfire nationals were the more expensive equipment crowd wanted to allow custom heavy barrels on Hunter class guns.  Anything was allowed in the unlimited class, total gun weight  only restriction. One guy said "everybody knows factory smallbores barrels are junk" 

Hunters were over half the guns used our club and many others . Committee allowed replacement barrels, triggers, stocks, on factory Hunter class guns maintaining the lighter weight restriction 

What developed was top shooters and wannabes went to expensive full custom Hunter class guns, using them in both classes. Two type gun competition fell apart as did competition with entry level guns   

My club, were I was Smallbore match director, experienced a slow decline in attendees with very few new coming into the sport. Ed result modern rifle silhouette is dead our club.

Good thing Lever Silhouette and Single shot Ram Bash matches flourished with much higher attendance than modern guns had experienced 

Strict equipment rules were important and contributed to growth. 

Having said all that we do need to accommodate older shooters with declining eyesight.  Solution now is OF Class. Separate prize structure for shooters over a certain age. It's used not much, I don't want to give my true age out ! 

Boats

Here's what I built.  Bought a 36" piece of 3/4" weldable tubing. I sodered and end cap on and drilled and tapped it for the Hadley. On the front, i bought an emt fitting that is threaded,  i had to grind the tube down a bit to get it to fit. I was going to solder it on, but discovered the fittings are made of pot metal with a melting point below soder, so I had to use epoxy to hold it on. I sodered on a piece of brass for a pope rib. I coated the inside with flat black acrylic paint, and cut 2 foam baffles, and pressed them in. For the front insert, I cut and drilled a piece of acrylic. 

Definitely not as nice as others I've seen, but with my limited space and tools, it works great

The Unertl tube sights that I have used all required a separate front sight and its height is critical to keep the front aperture somewhat centered. The first one I had which I sold was a 1” and was shorter than the 3/4” tube I currently have. Evidently it used different front sight ramps for different distances. A good solution for my 3/4” tube was to use a Unertl style dovetail front sight adapter such as the ones sold by Steve Earle. I initially mounted a Lyman 77 on a short adapter but it was too short. But a 77H was too tall. Then I found a sight with a larger diameter that has a glass insert with a black etched circle. It is the correct height for 200 yds and very easy to acquire. I had made a long tube sight with a Lyman 17a (with base ground off) inserted into the front of the tube. It could work for bench shooting but since all you could see was a small opening it was almost impossible to even find the ‘moving’ target shooting offhand. 

Jack

Mounted couple of my external adjustment scopes on rifles yesterday looking at heights and possibilities. All would require a higher front sight to match a tubes height. Don't want to alter  the windage adjustment fronts of two CPA's each with two barrels. Closest to a height fit was a Unertl 3x small game on a Marlin 39a it showed a little bit of the original Marlin front Ramp Bead and sight hood. Not enough to work.

Seems to me Unertl tube with a slip in arp front is the solution. Have several Lyman 17 fronts, be easy to mill off the base and turn the sight nice and round. Then a turn a sleeve to fit in or around the Unertl's tube.

Thanks all, Looking for a Unertl tube now

Boats