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too much engraving on bullet nose? (Read 235 times)

gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2474 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	too much engraving on bullet nose? Nov 22^nd, 2025 at 7:04pm	Print Post
	What do you think of this? Is the nose engraved too much? Will it cause leading? It's a Mos 38 cal bullet, 20:1, Alberta Schuetzen lube breech seated in my CPA with an RKS barrel. thanks, Chris.


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4183 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #1 - Nov 22^nd, 2025 at 8:43pm	Print Post
	Not an issue. Bullets that are tight in the bore; prevents the gas cutting around the bullet which normally causes leading. Another way of sealing the base to prevent gas getting around the side of the base is to have very square base edges. And we put a flared skirt on our bullet bases to tighten it up more. Done by putting a concave divot in the end of the H&I push pin so the raised edges flare the bullet base by .002" when you size the bullet. Perfectly sharp squared bullet base from sheering the base with the sharpened back edge of the sprue plate brought back after shearing the sprue. Gases can start to penetrate around the side when you have rounded base edges. Leading also occurs if the bullet diameter is less than the groove-to-groove diameter which allows gases to get around the side of the bullet. The lands engraving the bullet does not cause the leading. Your bullet may be a hair narrow since it does not appear it is tight between the lands. I use bullets .001" or .002" wider than my groove-to-groove barrel diameter.
	« Last Edit: yesterday* at 12:24pm by Schuetzendave* »

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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4183 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #2 - Nov 22^nd, 2025 at 10:17pm	Print Post
	422 grain Paul Jones Creedmoor engraved by my .40-60 Maynard CPA. 20:1 lead:tin alloy. .410" straight wall diameter bullet is .001" wider than the groove-to-groove barrel and comes out .409" after travelling down the barrel. Nose diameter in front of first driving band is .400" and barrel bore is .400" (bore riding). I can easily shoot 100 rounds @ 1,250 fps without it ever leading the barrel shooting 53.7 grains Swiss FFFg and blow tubing. The bullet seats tightly and you do not have pressure variations from gases going around the bullet which affects accuracy and/or barrel leading when it occurs.
	« Last Edit: yesterday* at 12:34pm by Schuetzendave* »

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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2474 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #3 - Nov 22^nd, 2025 at 10:34pm	Print Post
	That's interesting to hear Dave. The groove on this barrel is 0.3761" according to what Paul Shuttleworth stamped on it. The bore hasn't been measured, but it's less than 0.368" because that's the nose diameter on the bullet and it engraves the nose. Only the base band is larger than the grooves on this bullet. Base = 0.377", then 0.375", 0.374", 0.373", 0.373", 0.371". The bullet that has worked best so far is the Hoch 376310 which has very similar diameter, but the grooved shank of the bullet is longer so the effective taper is less, but no nose engraving. I guess I'll give it a try on Monday and see how the two bullets compare, but given what you've said, maybe a bigger bullet might be better. Chris.


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texasmac Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2088 Location: Central Texas Joined: Aug 16^th, 2004	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #4 - yesterday at 12:23am	Print Post
	I agree 100% with daves comments, but there are two concerns I have when looking at your bullet. The bullet diameter needs to be larger as Dave mentioned. And it seems the base band has a taper since the lands are not cutting the base band the full length. That potentially can result in leading especially if no wad is used. Wayne


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4183 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #5 - yesterday at 9:23am	Print Post
	I believe Chris breech seated his bullet and did not insert it far enough into the lands to fully engrave the bullet base. The tapered land cut is just from the taper of the end /nose of the land. I believe fully inserting the bullet would cut the lands equally across the base. With a tapered bullet it is more important the wider base be fully engraved to seal it so gases cannot penetrate around it. While tapered bullets are easier to breech seat I prefer the straight walled bullets which seal a bit better.
	« Last Edit: yesterday* at 9:30am by Schuetzendave* »

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texasmac Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2088 Location: Central Texas Joined: Aug 16^th, 2004	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #6 - yesterday at 10:07am	Print Post
	Dave, Being a BPCR shooter that shoots fully loaded cartridges, I assumed the bullet had been fired in a rifle. I have no experience with breach seating & did not realize that when breach seating the bullet is sufficiently seated to the extent that the lands fully engrave the entire driving bands including the base band. The leveraged breach seaters provide sufficiently leverage to fully seat the bullet but I would think that would be tough with a push only breach seater. Wayne


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4183 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #7 - yesterday at 12:09pm	Print Post
	I use a Weber seater for breech seating my .40-60 Maynard CPA. Most of the time I use fixed cases for BPCR Silhouette.
	« Last Edit: yesterday* at 12:31pm by Schuetzendave* »

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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2474 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: too much engraving on bullet nose? Reply #8 - yesterday at 12:16pm	Print Post
	Yeah it was breech seated with a Weber seater. I haven't shot this bullet in the rifle yet, so could seat it deeper, but I've always started with bullets with the base band 1/2 engraved. In this chamber there is a 0.050" long freebore at 0.377" ( which is the diameter of the base band ). I put the bullet in far enough that the base of the bullet is entirely within that freebore. The leade is 1.5 degrees per side, which is works out to be about 0.150" long. You can see the land impression starting to taper off. By the start of the next driving band, the bullet is entirely past the throat and into the bore. I figured that'd be a good place to start, but it might want to be engraved all the way. I'll find out soon I guess Chris.


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