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yellowhousejake
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Picket Ball swage
Aug 15th, 2025 at 9:24pm
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I have acquired a Norman Brockway picket rifle. It has an excellent bore and trigger/lock. It is complete with false muzzle, bullet starter, mold serialized to the barrel, patch cutter, sights, and a swage.

The swage was only a bit of trouble to get the base punch out without damage. An hour in an ultrasonic cleaner did the trick. However, the nose end of the swage looks as if it should come out as well. There is a .110 hole in the bottom of the swage body that appears to be for a punch to clear the swaged bullet and nose form. But, it ain't moving. It spent 48 hours in Ed's Red and now two hours plus in the ultrasonic cleaner. In other hammer swages I have, there are three pieces. A body, nose form, base punch. If the bullet does not release, you can gently drive a pin through the base to eject the formed bullet. I do not know if this swage works like that.

Has anyone used this type of swage? Does the nose end come out of the swage body?

Thank you,

DAve

  
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westerner
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #1 - Aug 16th, 2025 at 1:18am
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Here is my Seth Millard bullet swage. Assuming made by C. C. Fuller. The body of the swage, the part that drives the two part bullet in the swage and the small pin that knocks the formed bullet out. And a finished bullet. Bullet has rifling marks on it. Who knows what I was doing. Have not shot the rifle for at least ten years.
« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:09pm by westerner »  

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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #2 - Aug 16th, 2025 at 10:00am
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I don't have one, but from my reading of Roberts and others, a lot of them didn't have any means of pushing the bullet out of the swage after the hammering or pressing operation.  The operator relied on the polishing job done by the mechanic who built the rifle and accessories and a thin layer of lubricant on the inside.  I got the impression that it also took a certain amount of technical ability to apply the necessary jiggling, tapping, jarring and verbal incantations to get the bullet out after it had been swaged to shape.

For that reason, the swages were disliked by many.
  
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yellowhousejake
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #3 - Aug 16th, 2025 at 6:01pm
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Thank you both. I will cast some bullets from the mold and give it a try. I have good swaging lube.

DAve
  
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westerner
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #4 - Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:04pm
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Every bullet swage but one in Ned Roberts book The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle shows a pin to knock the bullet out of the swage. I suspect the one not showing the pin most likely had a pin but it just didn't show in the picture. 

I've formed many two piece bullets in the Millard swage with ease. The bullets pop out with the tap of a hammer on the ejector pin.
  

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Just Jim
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #5 - Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:15pm
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Not speaking from experience, but the way that swage is made with the fine coin knurling, I doubt that it is hiding a joint for separation.
  
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westerner
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #6 - Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:34pm
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I suspect the ejector pin is missing.
  

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yellowhousejake
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #7 - Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:36pm
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Just Jim wrote on Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:15pm:
Not speaking from experience, but the way that swage is made with the fine coin knurling, I doubt that it is hiding a joint for separation.


No joint I agree. The ones like I have seen used have a body with a small hole through one end for the pin. A nose form is inserted, then the bullet, then the base punch. The base punch in rapped and the body inverted. If the bullet does not fall free the pin can be inserted to tap the nose form and bullet out. I use one now that does not have a nose form, that is cut into the body and the pin simply contacts the nose of the bullet.

I am leaning towards this has only a body and a nose punch after looking into the body with a bore scope.

DAve
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #8 - Aug 17th, 2025 at 2:19pm
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Just Jim wrote on Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:15pm:
Not speaking from experience, but the way that swage is made with the fine coin knurling, I doubt that it is hiding a joint for separation.


the ridges on the edge of our coins is called reeding. used to stop folk from filing down coins to fudge the amount of precious metals that coins once were made from. guess it remains out of tradition. I don't suppose it is the same as knurling, but it might make the coin a little easier to handle. just for the forum's edification Smiley
  
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westerner
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #9 - Aug 17th, 2025 at 2:59pm
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Grin
  

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Just Jim
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #10 - Aug 17th, 2025 at 8:18pm
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calledflyer wrote on Aug 17th, 2025 at 2:19pm:
Just Jim wrote on Aug 17th, 2025 at 12:15pm:
Not speaking from experience, but the way that swage is made with the fine coin knurling, I doubt that it is hiding a joint for separation.


the ridges on the edge of our coins is called reeding. used to stop folk from filing down coins to fudge the amount of precious metals that coins once were made from. guess it remains out of tradition. I don't suppose it is the same as knurling, but it might make the coin a little easier to handle. just for the forum's edification Smiley


Always appreciate a little education!  Wink

I recently made a three piece swage to make heel bullets for .41 rimfire short. I did not think of a "nose form." I like that idea, and it gives an ejector pin something to strike other than soft lead. I love all these little jewels of information! 
  
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Saratoga Bill
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #11 - Aug 24th, 2025 at 8:19pm
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I've made swages for my slug guns with a drive out pin. I bought a nice picket without tooling so I'm working on that now. Since I plan to use a driving band bullet, my thought is to make the entire nose an insert to drive the bullet out. If it doesn't work, South Bend will make another.
  
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Joe Do...
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #12 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 10:25pm
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C.C. Fuller may be Carl Fuller, a noted slug gun and single shot shooter from California. I have seen bullet moulds stamped “CARL FULLER”

His son, Bill Fuller, set up a gunsmithing business in Cooper Landing, Alaska.
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: Picket Ball swage
Reply #13 - Aug 26th, 2025 at 4:53am
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And "Bill Fuller" is a name that should be remembered positively by many here of a certain age.

Bill Lawrence
  
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