Continuing the thread in the reloading section as it seems more appropriate, though I’m still looking for dies.

We’re close, I started with new 45-100 Sharps brass, the neck was slightly too large. I bought 45 ACP dies and used the sizing die as a neck sizer. Works great! The brass chambers now, but when I seat a bullet it bulges the case and I’m back to where I started. 

Bore slugged to .456”, I’m using .458” 300 grain bullets, a little light. I don’t want to shrink the bullet size, how would I go about making the cartridge fit. Ream the inside of the case slightly? I’d have to do it inside the die otherwise it would just expand. Planning on loading smokeless.

Let me know your thoughts. I’m anxious to fire it. Thanks.

Logan

Marlinguy,

I tried bumping the loaded cartridge into the sizing die and it did not like it. I wasn’t going to force it, I’ll look into 45 Colt dies. I agree about the bore size, same size as a 45-70, makes bullet selection various though.

Tom,

I’m not sure how to tell but it probably is. Any picture of the 44-90 cartridges I’ve found are PPed. That wouldn’t affect the case size problem though right? If I were to PP a smaller bullet and seat it into my case it would still bulge and not chamber. At least I would think.

Logan

MartiniBelgian is correct. The paper patch bullets are patched to BORE diameter. After the bullet is patched,it will slide through the barrel with little resistance. Therefore the case will also be sized to match the bore diameter. When you fire the round with black powder the bullet will expand into the grooves and seal the bullet into the rifling. If you plan to use smokeless powder, the burn rate will not allow the bullet to expand in the barrel. That’s why all of your paper patch rifles are designed for black powder. If you try to use a groove dia. bullet it will open the case mouth to the point it won’t chamber. A chamber cast and some measurements will give you the answer.
Hope this helps…


Tom Klinger

Ahhh OK very interesting. I thought that I was supposed to get a bullet slightly larger than my groove diameter so that it can squeeze into the rifling. I have a chamber cast, it confirms my .456” groove diameter and my case dimensions, the interesting thing is the case walls at the mouth look much thinner than the brass I have now. Leading me to the reaming idea. I’ll look into a bullet sizer or maybe I can find a .456” bullet. Not going to delve into paper patching just yet, maybe once I have my own place. Thanks all!

Logan

Thanks Jordan, I can find paper patch bullets at .451” on Buffalo Arms. Doesn’t look like they come with the patching though. Or I’ve found this Lee bullet mold, #457121PH, which is .456”. There are other dimensions in the description, maybe it’s tapered? I’ll keep poking around, seems like I’m trying to re-invent the wheel. If I have to paper patch I will, but that’s a ways away.

Logan

Logan, 
You say the “bore” slugs out to .456? I’m a little confused, that would mean the groove diameter would be around .464! This is supposed to be a 44/77. 
Are you sure the bore isn’t .446? That would make a lot more sense. If the bore is .446, you would need a .440 or .441 diameter paper patch bullet. Then after it’s wrapped, you gain about .005 increase in diameter from the addition of the paper. you end up with a bullet diameter of .446 which is correct for a 44/77…..

Tom Klinger

TomKlinger wrote on Aug 8^th, 2025 at 3:14pm:


Tom I often hear guys use the term "bore" for bore diameter, or groove diameter, so likely just a error there.

Logan wrote on Aug 8^th, 2025 at 4:59pm:


His suggestion usually works, but doesn't always apply since it can vary as you've discovered. Especially so when a old rifle has a groove diameter that's oddball sized for the normal size chamber. It's not all that uncommon to find old rifles with larger than normal groove diameters that wont accept fixed ammo and chamber. I have a Hepburn in .32-40 that accepts all my .32-40 ammo chambered, but the groove diameter is .328" and it wont accept a .328" bullet seated in the case. I has a Saeco mold opened up at the base band to .328" and had Jerry Cleave build me a breech seating tool to breech seat the bullet and I shoot it this way.
I also have Ballard with a .38-55 Schoyen barrel that's a .384" groove diameter and only gets shot as a breech seater due to the large groove diameter. 
I You may end up shooting yours as a breech seater if you discover a .456"  bulleted seated in a case still wont chamber, or do as Tom mentioned and have a stop ring bullet mold made to make it a heeled bullet and fit the case and bore.

Logan wrote on Aug 8^th, 2025 at 10:08pm:


Odds are if you go less than groove diameter with BP it wont hurt at .001" smaller, but more than that will likely begin to lead the bore. Unless your smaller bullets were paper patched, and then you can get away without leading.

Logan,
Your dimensions make more sense now👍 good luck with your endeavor.

Updates!

I received my case neck turner yesterday and made a couple dummy rounds. Sizing a good inch of the case to 45 ACP then running it through the expander ball and turning. When the wall thickness was turned to 0.010" it still does not fit. Turned to 0.008", still with a 0.458" bullet, it fits! Not real easy by hand, I've ordered a Lee shell holder as that's the only one the tool accepts.

Is 0.008" too thin for the case wall? Wondering if it will crack but I suppose we will see. I can always get a bullet sizer too.

Logan