I see at least a few more Ballard rifles in your future Wayne! It starts with one, and then as you and the first Ballard get friendly you suddenly find yourself looking at every Ballard you see and lusting for yet another!
My addiction started after many years of collecting pre WWI Marlin lever actions, when I friend asked me why I didn't own any Ballard rifles in my collection? I hadn't even considered it, but his question was true, and I felt compelled to fill that void. The next gun show I spotted a Ballard #2 in .38 Long that was just an average gun with decent bore. Ok, so I filled that empty hole.
Then the next gun show I saw a really nice Ballard #4 1/2 engraved, and it was like just seeing the most gorgeous gal ever, and knowing you couldn't have her! The price was beyond my means, although only $1300. But back then that was crazy money to me. But I kept looking, and soon had several better Ballard rifles than the lowly #2 I started with.
Things continued to add to my addiction, and like any good addict I began to sell my other rifles to allow me to reinvest the money into more Ballard rifles. Often it took 2-4 Marlin lever actions to buy one Ballard, and my 200 gun collection eventually dwindled to 5 or 6 I still own today.
So hang on tight Wayne; the ride is just beginning!

texasmac wrote on Jul 25^th, 2025 at 3:40pm:


1-All Ballard serial numbers ran throughout models, and through start to finish. Starting in 1875 with JM Marlin marked receivers at #1 and going through 1881 when JM Marlin incorporated and became Marlin Firearms Co. and serial numbers were restarted again. So there are cases of JM Marlin and MFAC marked rifles having the same serial number! That's up to around 5 digit numbers, so after around 10,000-12,000 they were all Marlin Firearms Co. marked. No records to determine when a specific Ballard was built, or which model it is, but I can give you a guesstimate of the year if you tell me if it's a JM Marlin or Marlin Firearms co. marked receiver.
2-Not unusual for the extractor to only move 1/4", but only moving the small amount with a chambered case tells me the spur on the extractor is well worn and should have been built up. I've got some that have been reworked and a longer point built up on the spur that extract cases a half inch.
3-Firing pins don't have a spring, but should move freely in the block as you open the lever to clear primer indent. If you open the action or cock the hammer and point the muzzle up you should see the rear of the firing pin move back indicating it's free in the block.

PS-Since your number is in the 36316 range it will be a very late Ballard, and not JM Marlin. That number is likely from around 1890 year. The numbers stopped not much above that.
There are as always exceptions to the general markings. I own a Ballard #3 .22RF that is a high 36,000 number, but still has a JM Marlin rollstamp! Either the regular stamp got broken and an old stamp used, or the receiver was stamped much earlier, and the action set aside and lost. Then later assembled and has the old stamp. It also by chance went to England and has Birmingham proof marks. One of the last Ballard rifles made, and highest serial number I've seen.

texasmac wrote on Jul 25^th, 2025 at 4:14pm:


Yes, as i mentioned a number that high will be Marlin Firearms Co. always, except for an oddball exception.

I own a Ballard rifle with .32-40 Stevens-Pope barrel that someone reworked the extractor on by welding up a very large point where the original small point was. It extracted cases back 1/2" when opening the lever, which amazed me. But the first time I tried removing the breech block I almost couldn't get the extractor out of the action! I fought and wiggled it for 15 minutes until it finally got to the right place for it to slip out. I compared it to a stock spare and saw how huge the point was that works the extractor. I clamped it in my vise and used my Fordam tool to reshape the point and take off enough material to allow it to be installed easily, and still extract well. It backs the cases out about 3/8" now, and disassembles without any trouble.

Yes, the area with the arrow is what needs to be built up. That's pretty well worn compared to those in good shape.

No need to split the breech blocks as you can run a brass bore brush in the firing pin bore, and then use a proper sized drill bit spun with your fingers to clear the firing pin hole.

DeHaas's Single Shot Rifles and Actions on Page 17 shows the double set trigger mechanism.

Wouldn’t #2 in this picture be the open limit lever stop for the extractor or the other side in your picture?
I believe #1 is the contact point to kick open the extractor.   
Bob

bobw wrote on Jul 26^th, 2025 at 7:24pm:


That area makes contact with the lever cut when the lever is fully opened. It shouldn't be touching anything when the lever is partially opened. To make the extractor fully open the area with the arrow needs to contact the lever to move it as your arrow #1 points to. The area arrow #2 points to never touches anything and always has a slight gap there.
Wayne's extractor that flat area built up if it doesn't move the extractor when the lever is fully opened. Or the matching contact area on the lever built up.

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The lever moves almost 90 degrees before it contacts the extractor to begin drawing it back. Sometimes guys aren't opening the lever fully enough to make it extract.

bobw wrote on Jul 26^th, 2025 at 7:57pm:


I might be wrong, but I think Wayne was having trouble with his cases not extracting far enough to grasp the rims to pull them out?
I might have to look at the operation again with the lever screw  trapped in a hole to see for sure, but I think you're right that the breech block may be the only thing that stops the extractor's backward movement so it doesn't over travel. That's what I mentioned earlier about some people adding material on the block side to limit travel there also. 
I've seen all sorts of strange mods done by guys trying to improve on Charles Ballard's design, and most don't. But some slight modifications do help as long as they don't go too far.

I should take the Ballard with the Stevens-Pope barrel apart and take pictures of that extractor mod to post also.

Wayne,
When you get your rifle back together, close the block and cock the hammer to full cock. Then carefully try to open the action. At that point you will see why you can’t open the action in the full cock position. Don’t force it, it can damage the sear. Same situation with Sst or dst.
Sa far as the link goes, the flat faces up and towards the hammer……

Tom Klinger

TomKlinger wrote on Jul 27^th, 2025 at 6:58am:


Tom,

After receiving the rifle & marlinguy's warning, I tried opening the action with the hammer in full-cock & felt the increased resistance, but did not underatand why.  After separating the block & getting the lever link position correctly I now understand what caused the increased resistance & why forcing the lever open with the hammer in full cock will break the tip off the sear (double set-trigger) or tip of the trigger (single trigger rifle).  Also, I can see how the flat on the link rotates the hammer to half-cock when the lever is fully lowered.  See the photos below.

Wayne

Wayne, you are right, Ballard, just like Browning, had no idea what he was doing;-)

oneatatime wrote on Jul 27^th, 2025 at 4:01pm:


oneatatime,

Sarcasm does not flatter you.    I was only suggestion, what to me, was an obvious modification.

Wayne

One other mention. Marlin never built a SST, only DST and non setting single triggers. Never all the 4 options that the 1885's had.

I'm really enjoying your introduction to Ballard rifles Wayne! It's made me refresh my memory also as I rarely have a need to take any apart, and have taken a couple apart the last couple days just to get a refresher course.

oneatatime wrote on Jul 27^th, 2025 at 5:02pm:


Good.  I'm glad we've got that settled.  No matters what others say, you are a gentleman. 

Wayne

More photos.

And the last two.

Wayne

Wayne,
If you’re shooting against me in a big bore match……….
It looks GREAT!!



Tom Klinger

marlinguy wrote on Jul 27^th, 2025 at 8:39pm:


Vall,

Although I have yet to contact the seller, I expect that's true.

Wayne

Wayne,
Check your emails…….


Tom

Guys,

After checking out the bore & sending the borescope photos (see earlier posting on this thread) to the seller, we worked out an agreement.  I'm keeping the rifle & plan to have it lined by Tom Klinger with a T.J liner & also have him fix the extractor.  But 1st I plan to work up 25 or 30 loads & run a ladder test to see how the the current barrel performs & if there's any bore leading compared to the earlier photos.  Will try to remember to update this thread afterwards.

BTW, I ladder test for shot placement & also velocity at 200yds with a 25X Lyman scope & that tiny Garmin XERO chrono (love it).

Wayne

My, new to me, Ballard came with a spare firing pin. It  looks substantial & there's a notch cut out of the bottom of the barrel rim to prevent the non-spring-loaded firing pin from hitting when opening the action.  So I'm curious as to why the extra pin? I would expect it to be uncommon to break a pin.

Not so with the Sharps which requires the hammer to be pulled back to the half-cock position prior to opening the action. I broke one before developing the habit of half-cocking the rifle after firing & opening the action.

Wayne

The John Dutcher book arrived this morning & I've spent several hours going through the complete book, reading some of the text & all photo captions.  What a great book.  So after checking out my rifle compared to the details & photo, here's what I concluded.

But 1st, understand that the rifle does not have the original barrel & wood.  From what I can tell Lee Shaver installed a Green Mountain barrel (his name is stamped under the forearm along with Green Mountain) & chambered it for .38-55.  Then John King rebuilt the rifle including setting the barrel back & rechambered it to .38-55 Long, polished & blued the barrel, inletted the English walnut stock & forearm from Treebone Carving to the receiver & barrel including inletting an ebony tip to the forearm & a beautiful case hardened butt plate.  He polished the action & parts for case hardening.  He sanded & finished the stock & forearm & case hardend the action & parts.

The seller indicated he was not satisfied with the bore & had JES rebore the barrel to .40cal, cut the grooves & chamber it for .40-65.  JES overstamped Lee Shaver's name with .40-65 & added 1:14.  If the condition of the bore is any indication of JES's work, they will never get their hands on one of my rifles.

So, after all that & reading Dutcher's book, since it does not have the original barrel & wood, the original rifle may have started out life as a #4, #5 Pacific or #6 Schuetzen.  The seller said it was a #4.

It has the following:
•      Late Marlin Ballard serial # (36316)
•      Forged steel frame
•      2-line address on the receiver: MARLINE FIRE ARMS CO. NEW HAVEN CT. U.S.A. over BALLARD’S.PATENT.NOV.5.1861
•      2nd style ring lever
•      Rebated ledge receiver
•      Large diameter firing pin screw
•      1 piece pivoting extractor
•      2nd type double-set trigger breechblock with reverse curve hammer
•      Thin double-set trigger mounting plate with very small adjusting screw & thin triggers.
•      The checkering on the top of the trigger does not match anything in Dutcher’s book.
•      Straight stock.
•      The beautiful case-hardened butt plate has very fine checkering outlined by a single line.  It does not match anything in Dutcher’s book.

Considering all the above its most likely started out as a #4 rifle as was indicated by the seller.

Wayne

Wayne, if the breech blocks match the action, then it would have been a special order #4 since I seem to recall it has DST? Or since barrel and stocks were replaced it more likely was a #5 Pacific action, and got fitted with a new barrel and stocks. Once they're restored and reworked it's tough to say which model it once was. We can eliminate any of the pistol gripped models, or engraved models, or deluxe models. But #4, #4 1/4, or #5 Paicifc could all be candidates it was built from.
With the late action, and serial number it's very close to the end of production, and probably around 1889.

I've never seen or owned a Ballard with a serial number over high 36,000 range, and if I recall correctly John Dutcher also confirmed this to me when he was looking at a lot more Ballard rifles than I had. I surely haven't seen on in the 37,000 range.
Of course there are JM Marlin and Marlin Firearms Co. marked Ballard rifles that have the same serial numbers since John Marlin restarted numbers when he incorporated in 1881. I had a #6 Schuetzen JM marked, and a #2 Sporter MFC marked with the same number. Both were around the 3000 serial number range if I recall rightly?
I've seen some JM Marlin marked pretty high, but mostly they stopped around 9000 range. I have a weird #3 .22 Long that has all MFCo. features, but has a JM Marlin rollstamp, and is in the 36,000 range. It went to England and has Birmingham proof marks. Obviously a very late Ballard, and likely a receiver that got stamped early, and then lost or set aside until the end when they were cleaning up the last Ballards. It's also got a shotgun buttplate and stock instead of the standard crescent. It's the same buttplate as my #7 Long-Range, and weird on such a small #3, but serial numbers all match on stock and forearm to the gun. British hated crescent buttplates.

Gettin ready to load several cartridges to run a ladder test & tried a few of the unprimed cases to see how they fit.  They chambered fine but I found that if the firing pin is pressed forward, it prevents the breechblock from opening, even with the hammer in half-cock.  After bouncing the rifle on the carpeted floor to get the firing pin to back out, no problem opening the action.  I assume this is normal with the Ballard since there's no firing pin spring.  I'm also assuming that extracting a case with a fired primer should not be a problem.  Comments appreciated.

Wayne

bpjack wrote on Sep 17^th, 2025 at 6:38pm:


Jack,

So, based on your response, I'm assuming what I experienced with an unprimed case is normal in the Ballard,

Wayne

Yes, this would be normal.  With no primer in the brass, the firing pin is hooking on the square edge of the primer pocket.  With no shell, and the firing pin pushed forward, the firing is pushed back, when opening the breech, by a slight chamfer filed into the bottom of the barrel chamber rim.

Should be no problem with a primed case.
Bob

I've had this happen on a Stevens 44 1/2 without a cartridge or cartridge case in the chamber, if there isn't a groove in the extractor for the firing pin tip. The firing pin will get hung up on the extractor.

texasmac wrote on Sep 17^th, 2025 at 6:57pm:


Not really "normal" for a Ballard Wayne. I've never had it happen in my 40 plus years of owning them. I have had an instance when it happened after dry firing on a fired case numerous times and it finally indented the primer enough to cause this.
My guess is someone might have made a new firing pin and it's too long at the tip, or the rear. If it's too long then when the lever is opened and that moves the hammer up off the firing in, then the firing pin wont retract enough. Could also be too tight in the breech block halves so it doesn't easily float in the hole. Should be able to tip the barrel up and see the firing pin drop back with the hammer cocked.
Need to check protrusion at the face of the breech block with hammer down, which should be .040"-.050". Then also check that the rear of the firing pin isn't above the breech block surface with the firing pin pushed forward. If it's high at the rear it can cause this issue. The hammer should also raise to the half cock position, which is very low on a Ballard. If you open the lever a little, then close it you should see a gap between the hammer and the breech block. Then try holding the trigger back and raise the hammer a little and allow the hammer to drop and the gap should be gone as the half cock notch releases it. If that doesn't happen the half cock notch isn't working.

Marlin guy
Please Re read my response, the rifle has a chamfer, firing pin cut, whatever your preferred name which has nothing to do with what Wayne is doing. The firing pin moves freely in the block. Half cock works as it should. I didn’t measure protrusion. I just tried on my two Ballards with UNPRIMED cases. Holding the rifle level, putting the hammer all the way down, pulling it back to half cock, then tried to drop the block. the firing pin caught on the empty primer holes on both rifles. One I just tipped up and the pin went back into the block and it opened. The second rifle I needed to bump the butt on the carpet it get it to retract into the block. Pulled the block on the second rifle and found it needed cleaning in the firing pin hole. Now it falls back and forth in the block.
My original #7 has .055 protrusion and my  other has .050.
One case was Starline and the 44/100 was RMC Ballard everlasting..

Tom Klinger

I read your response Tom, and understand what you said. It's just not happening to me one any Ballards I own. I've never tried an unprimed case that I recall, so can't speak to that, but it wouldn't surprise me to have the firing pin stick in an empty pocket.
I was simply giving Wayne some info on Ballard rifles since he previously mentioned his being the first Ballard he's owned.

I ran a ladder test a couple of days ago with my new-to-me Ballard .40-65.  Following are the results of 25 shots with Swiss 1.5F & 416gr BACO bullet.  The shooting conditions were excellent with very mild winds out of the south.  The range was 200yds & I used a Lyman 25X external adjustable scope.  The rifle barrel was supported by bench-rest cross sticks with the butt stock resting on a padded rest.

Due to the density of the target holes, I decided to use two targets.  In a single image, I combined the two targets along with the velocities & line graph of the velocities.  Notice how the entire group tightened up on the 2nd (lower) target as the compression & velocities increased, & the two sweets spot areas which I highlighted.  I’ve had up to three sweet spots on other rifles.  So, the next step is to pick a powder charge in the middle of each (53.3gr & 58.3gr), load up 10 rounds of each & head back to the range to determine which one results in the best group & lowest standard deviation.  I’m betting the higher velocity one wins out.

BTW, keep in mind that when evaluating a ladder test target, only the vertical spread is important.  And you're looking for velocity “sweet spots” where the vertical bullet point-of-impact (POI) does not change appreciably over a narrow range of velocities, illustrated as a flattening in the line graph.  The horizontal spread is ignored.  And if you believe as I do that a ladder test based on only velocity is sufficient, a target is not necessary, only a chronograph.  BTW, I used the relatively new little Garmin XERO doppler-based chrono.

Wayne

oneatatime,

You comments reminded me that prior to the ladder test, I had not determined the barrel vibration sweet spot.  An oversight on my part.  But, although it may have affected the POI to some extent when evaluating the targets, it would not have affected the velocity results.  BTW, I rested the barrel on the sticks about 6" behind the muzzle.

On several Browning BPCR & a Sharps, all with heavy barrels, I've found the vibration sweet spot tends to be around 7 to 8" behind the muzzle.

Wayne

This post was timely for me. I just won a Ballard in 32-40 today on the Rock island arms action. It has been restocked with a drop dead beautiful piece of wood. I expect to be picking your brains after I get it. I had a Highwall in 32-40 and loved 4227 16 or 18 grains, I forget which. ? is the Ballard able to handle this load, or will I be limited to BP only? Naturally I want to have the ammo loaded before she gets here.
Thanks.

Single Shot Rifles by Grant.  Chapter 1 is Ballards, I'm re-reading it now. Saw a great picture book, on Abe books, for only $500. For $500 should get great pictures and a scratch and sniff of each rifle.

Of course I will not know until I get it but, the SN is 34610 and the barrel matches the action, and I believe it is a latter model ie: Marlin Firearms company. It has been restocked, so who knows what else. What I read the latter #4's were to be had in 32-40, so I hope that is what is coming.
Thanks, I paid too much for it to blow it in half.

You might want to wait till you get your Ballard and first slug the bore before making up loaded rounds. I put the cart before the horse and made up rounds before getting my 32-40 Ballard. Well, I got .321 bullets and then found out my groove dia. was .323. Just something to think about.

DWT1885 wrote on Oct 6^th, 2025 at 9:41am:


With a new-to-me rifle I always make a chamber cast including a portion of the bore & slug the bore prior to loading ammo.  I also keep the cast & slug or fully document all the dimensions for future reference.

Wayne

Good advice from all. Thank you

So Mack, Now that you have shot in the 200 yard match, how did you do? What did you learn?