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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard questions (Read 3378 times)
marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #15 - Jul 26th, 2025 at 8:04pm
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bobw wrote on Jul 26th, 2025 at 7:57pm:
Vall, okay I didn’t have one apart right now but I see my #2 doesn’t touch anything.  

But I thought he was asking about the limiting stop for the extractor being fully open.  I agree, if it’s not moving the extractor a build up would be required.

This is something I was going to be looking at on a rifle I have in the shop, so the question perked up my interest.  I was looking/wanting to limit the opening, just a little, because a cartridge head will slip past once in awhile.  Looks like nothing but the breech block stops the distance the extractor can move.  But then I need to study things a bit more…when I get to it.
Bob



I might be wrong, but I think Wayne was having trouble with his cases not extracting far enough to grasp the rims to pull them out?
I might have to look at the operation again with the lever screw  trapped in a hole to see for sure, but I think you're right that the breech block may be the only thing that stops the extractor's backward movement so it doesn't over travel. That's what I mentioned earlier about some people adding material on the block side to limit travel there also. 
I've seen all sorts of strange mods done by guys trying to improve on Charles Ballard's design, and most don't. But some slight modifications do help as long as they don't go too far.

I should take the Ballard with the Stevens-Pope barrel apart and take pictures of that extractor mod to post also.
  

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texasmac
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #16 - Jul 26th, 2025 at 10:13pm
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Guys,

I ended up separating the block.  After removing the firing pin & attempting to clean the cavity, I found it not only was it quite dirty with thick goop but was rusted in a couple of places.  Also the bottom back of the firing pin was flared, widening the back so that it would not loosely slip back in forth.  The hammer was apparently only stricking the bottom 1/3 of the pin. So, I split the block.  See the photo below after cleaning the firing pin cavity.  The rest was spotless.

So, now I have a novice problem.  I thought I remembered how the lever link was oriented, but now I'm not sure.  What is the orientation of the link? Is the ledge in the front or back &  facing up or down?

Another thing, looking closely at the exposed trigger group, it's not obvious as to why one should not attempt to lower the trigger with the hammer at full-cock.  Does this apply to double set-trigger rifles also?

bobw,
Thanks for offering a photo of the set-trigger group, but as you can see, I no longer need it.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2025 at 10:30pm by texasmac »  

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TomKlinger
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #17 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 6:58am
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Wayne,
When you get your rifle back together, close the block and cock the hammer to full cock. Then carefully try to open the action. At that point you will see why you can’t open the action in the full cock position. Don’t force it, it can damage the sear. Same situation with Sst or dst.
Sa far as the link goes, the flat faces up and towards the hammer……

Tom Klinger

  
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bobw
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #18 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 10:26am
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Just to add to what Tom said.  
The flat on the link pushes the hammer to half cock when lowering the lever.  Understanding what it does help in knowing its orientation.
Bob
  

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texasmac
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #19 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 3:29pm
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TomKlinger wrote on Jul 27th, 2025 at 6:58am:
Wayne,
When you get your rifle back together, close the block and cock the hammer to full cock. Then carefully try to open the action. At that point you will see why you can’t open the action in the full cock position. Don’t force it, it can damage the sear. Same situation with Sst or dst.
So far as the link goes, the flat faces up and towards the hammer……
Tom Klinger


Tom,

After receiving the rifle & marlinguy's warning, I tried opening the action with the hammer in full-cock & felt the increased resistance, but did not underatand why.  After separating the block & getting the lever link position correctly I now understand what caused the increased resistance & why forcing the lever open with the hammer in full cock will break the tip off the sear (double set-trigger) or tip of the trigger (single trigger rifle).  Also, I can see how the flat on the link rotates the hammer to half-cock when the lever is fully lowered.  See the photos below.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2025 at 3:36pm by texasmac »  

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texasmac
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #20 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 3:57pm
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To address the problem with lowering the lever in the full-cock position, I would think modifying the hammer by taking some metal off (milling off) the lower portion of the circular relief (see photo) would eliminate the problem.  There would still be more than sufficient metal for the fly to work properly.  Of course it would most likely require annealing the hammer prior to milling, then rehardening afterwards.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:02pm by texasmac »  

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oneatatime
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #21 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:01pm
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Wayne, you are right, Ballard, just like Browning, had no idea what he was doing;-)
  
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #22 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:10pm
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Wayne,
Reassemble the rifle complete ready to fire. Cock the hammer to full cock. If you try to open the action, the cocked hammer will hit the frame with the hammer spur. If forced, it will damage the sear. When it lull cock position the hammer spur hangs well over the frame.
I don’t think you tried this yet……you’ll see what I’m trying to say.

Tom
  
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texasmac
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #23 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:12pm
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oneatatime wrote on Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:01pm:
Wayne, you are right, Ballard, just like Browning, had no idea what he was doing;-)


oneatatime,

Sarcasm does not flatter you.  Grin  I was only suggestion, what to me, was an obvious modification.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2025 at 5:23pm by texasmac »  

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texasmac
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #24 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:38pm
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TomKlinger wrote on Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:10pm:
Wayne,
Reassemble the rifle complete ready to fire. Cock the hammer to full cock. If you try to open the action, the cocked hammer will hit the frame with the hammer spur. If forced, it will damage the sear. When it lull cock position the hammer spur hangs well over the frame.
I don’t think you tried this yet……you’ll see what I’m trying to say.

Tom


Tom,

I gotcha, so even if the hammer link was not forcing the hammer to rotate, the hammer spur would essentially do the same thing upon forcibly lowering the lever.  Thanks for clarifying that.  

So, everyone reading this thread, please disregard my earlier ignorant suggestion of modifying the hammer.

And oneatatime, I forgive you for your earlier comment.  Roll Eyes Grin

Wayne
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #25 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 4:53pm
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One other mention. Marlin never built a SST, only DST and non setting single triggers. Never all the 4 options that the 1885's had.

I'm really enjoying your introduction to Ballard rifles Wayne! It's made me refresh my memory also as I rarely have a need to take any apart, and have taken a couple apart the last couple days just to get a refresher course.
  

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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #26 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 5:02pm
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I forgive you, Wayne;-)
  
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texasmac
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #27 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 5:26pm
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oneatatime wrote on Jul 27th, 2025 at 5:02pm:
I forgive you, Wayne;-)


Good.  I'm glad we've got that settled.  No matters what others say, you are a gentleman.  Roll Eyes Grin

Wayne
  

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texasmac
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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #28 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 6:12pm
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Guys,

I have sure appreciated all your help & have throughy enjoyed this thread & getting educated on the Ballards.  But unfortunately I may be returning the rifle to the seller for a refund or getting him to refund enough to replace the barrel.  I just completed running a borescope down the bore, which I should have done earlier.  The bore looked good when visually inspecting with a bore light or holding it up to a light source & looking down the bore.  But not so with a borescope. 

Here's a bunch of bore photos in sequence, starting from the chamber to about 26" down the bore.  All the lands & grooves are in the same condition.  Notice how dark the bore is forward of the chamber, with rust colored streaks further on.  It only starts to brighten up about 10" forward.  Also note all the gouges & imperfection along the entire length of the borescope, even when there's no darkening from rust that had been cleaned out. Also, all the circular cutter marks when the bore was rebored & chambered by JES Rebore from 38-55 to 40-65, and there's one spot in the dark region with a deeper circular cut completely around all the lands.

I've looked at a lot of bores with a scope & some imperfection are expected & acceptable.  For the price I paid, this is certainly not acceptable from my point of view.  What do you guys think?

Wayne
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2025 at 6:24pm by texasmac »  

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Re: Ballard questions
Reply #29 - Jul 27th, 2025 at 6:13pm
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More photos.
  

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