Westerner saw this at the Post Falls gun show last Sunday and i bought it.  (He figures it will be his someday but ....)
#4 barrel with a very good bore.  32-40.  Some initials on the ebony forearm tip an under the forend.  No serial number except under the butt plate where the plate and wood numbers match. The target was shot with some bullets that I had that tipped some.  Iron sight (not the one pictured and a post front sight.  200 yds.

Jack

The picture does not do justice to the rifle.  A diamond in the rough.

Really nice 1885 Jack! A little black epoxy smeared over those initials and sanded smooth makes them disappear easily.

leave the initials and tell any who ask that they stand for Great Little Winchester. problem solved and no epoxy to mix.

How about Dave Shelton

Nice find, Jack.

Is it a coil or flat spring?

Also, how long is the barrel and what does it weight?

Whoa! Nice rifle Jack !

That's really nice Jack!

Chris.

Mongo like 30 inch #4 barrel for offhand.

The tang sight has the following on the bottom of the base:

PAT. MAR. 30. 86.

I found this reference as well as a link to the pdf file suggesting it could be a Wetmore sight possible sold by Winchester.

There ar no markings on the upper tang under the sight indicative of a very early 1885.   

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I got out my Campbell’s book and it opened to page 93 where it shows under barrel markings. The  O. F. Stands for outside fitted barrel (barrel purchased for private fitting). I also read that Winchester would sell un-serialized lower tangs to gunsmiths who would not add one. My theory is this rifle was van vetted to its present form later in life with the addition of the #4 barrel and DST tang. The O. F. symbol was the early marking for outside fitted barrels and  P inside a circle was used later.

Russ Hooks says he has seen many high wall sporting rifles with nice checkered buttstocks and plain Jane forearms.  I see that Westerner picked up a stock set today, I am sure the #4 checkered forearm is my belated birthday present. 

Ja ck

Thank you, Jack.

Now with a scope, it should be close to a 13.5 lb rifle. Perfect for Mongo's OH rifle.

He should do 225's, easy!

You could have your name, legally changed to add Pope to it somewhere. Then it would be legit   

"Yes Joe, it is another high wall"

Yes I know, Jack. I was there. I saw it first and we looked at it. You said you weren't interested and I said well I am so loan me some money so I can buy it and that's when you decided to buy it. So I tricked you into buying a nice HW target rifle. Someone had to do it.

bpjack wrote on Jul 9^th, 2025 at 10:28am:


A little tip to make the wood repair easier Jack. I do forearms pieces by leaving the forearm on the barrel. Put some of your wife's Saran Wrap around the barrel, and replace the forearm. Then make up a piece of walnut close to the size you need for the filler; especially close to fit the area it butts to the break!
Then tape off the forearm close to the area and use clear epoxy to glue the repair piece on the forearm, and use rubber bands cut from bicycle inner tubes to hold it tightly while the epoxy cures.
Once it's had plenty of cure time remove the rubber bands and the forearm, and begin final filing and sanding to blend the donor wood. Then whatever finish you like to match it.

bpjack wrote on Jul 9^th, 2025 at 10:28am:


Yes, I give you an A and a gold star for your haggling skills considering it was your first quality HW purchase. I could tell you were nervous. You did good. 

speaking of those negotiating skills, Jack- if you want a better cut of things in  Joe's will, cancel the eye doctor and say you will spend that money on a good set of scope blocks. Just sayin'

You can made a clamp arrangement to go on the flats of the barrel, full width, in front of the forearm and 1/2 flat, at the rear. Bridge the two clamps and put your scope blocks on that.

The reality is that I have several scoped 32-40s I can shoot. 3 high walls and a Ballard.  I also have a 32 RKS high walls being built that will have a heavy barrel.  I will leave this rifle as is and challenge my iron sight skills.  I don’t think I will practice my offhand shooting with it though. I really like my 39-30 Wesson short barreled Ballard for offhand. It has one bad habit though. It usually hits right where it is pointed instead of where I hope it would hit. I did end the Spokane ISSA shoot on a high note, however. The very last shot of the match was in the 20 shot offhand any sight match and it was a 25. 


Jack

I think my bullets are afraid of the color red.  I remember watching Bob Zimmerman keep all 10 offhand shots in the red at Tacoma one year.   Being an electrician having to work on wiring overhead for years helped as well as shooting offhand flintlocks all the time. 
It would help if the two record targets were not directly in line vertically.  I seem to frequently drop a shot from the top target onto the bottom and one from the bottom on the top.  I had 12 shots on my top target but one was a double that I didn’t see but the other was 1/2” from the bottom of the paper from a high shot

Bob did have shoulder surgery on both shoulders and was not shooting offhand for a couple of years but came back strong.

here is something that can help.

That would always be an option.  With the prong buttplate it would probably not be my go to bench gun though.

Of my 19 Winchester high and low walls, my 32-20 low wall is the closest to being original with just the addition of scope blocks. At the Post Falls show the first rifle I looked at was claimed by the seller to be all original. It must have been very rare version then with its Bishop buttstock and rubber butt pad. He wanted $2K for it.  Mine is not really all original as the barrel and lower tang were sold to someone very early on and added to the receiver as far as we can tell. Still the barrel looks to have been made prior to 1909 based on its marks.

I should have recognized the Catholic Church marks on the barrel. Dang.

After the passage of the 1938 firearms act, I doubt Winchester would have been selling unserialized lower tangs.  Old-Win stated that the barrel marking of O.F. was superseded in 1913 with a P in a circle for barrels sold separately.  I suppose I could get the buttstock carbon dated    

When I was discussing having to do ATF paperwork for a high wall with no Winchester name on the upper tang, the local dealer said they routinely did paperwork for rifles with no serial number.  My highwall had a number but the AFT form listed it as 'unknown manufacturer, unknown model" even though the Cabelas' receipt said Winchester high wall.

My 25 Hornet that I got from Bob Zimmerman's estate has an ATF xxxxx serial number on the upper tang that I am sure Bob had added to the non-serialized rifle that was bulit by Ron Smith.  I asked Ron about it and he said that he would not have had it added to cross the border.

Jack

The fact that Winchester did not serialized the receivers is why Campbell said it was hard to date them due to lots of tang swapping.  With the only number being a 4 digit one on the stock under the buttplate, I can't even get a Cody letter.
It would be nice to have al the records in a spreadsheet so I could check all the models ending in the 4 digit number I have to see which ones were possibles.

Where is Mr Peabody and his WABAC machine when you need him.

Jack

gunlaker wrote on Jul 14^th, 2025 at 8:40pm:


Good luck with getting Bert H. to help with this. I had a Special Sporting High Wall in .32-40 with a lot of deluxe features, but someone broke the lower tang and repaired it with a nice tig weld, but lost part of the serial number. I asked Bert if I gave him all the features, and the job number off the left side of the tangs if he might sometime peruse the records and maybe stumble across my rifle and write down the serial number?
He said he spends a week every year going through all the 1885 records, but didn't have time or the inclination to watch for my 1885 while going through the records.

I am afraid we will never see such records in the public domain as long as it is a money maker for the Cody Museum.  I don’t fault them for providing that service but I am sure they wouldn’t want to do a complicated search. 

Jack

Not as well as I want.  Structurally it is sound but I need to find a better wood match and redo the seam.  OK for now.  I will deal with it when things settle down.  Maybe this winter.

No but I have lots on my plate and my back and hip are very painful.  Here is the repair with the unacceptable seam.  Off to walk the dog at the shady park
Jack

I put the trail camera up in the back yard. There were reports of a bear a couple of hundred yards south snd and a coyote in my neighbors driveway this morning.

Well Joe I received a lot of 5 Winchester grip caps from eBay. Someone had ground off the tabs on the bottom but one fit better that the one I robbed from the 25 Hornet.  All that is left (besides eventually fixing the forend) is to sand and possibly thin the MVA lever.  That task will be a winter project as well. Next up is to see which of the 4 bullets I have shoot the best. I will try using some 8” black bull targets I have at 100 yds where hopefully I can get a better sight picture. When we finally get some of the usual Washington overcast I should be able to see a 200 yd bull again. Our range has so many tall trees on the right side that causes shade most of the morning. By the time the 200 yd target is in the bright sun, it blurs out for me.   

Jack

Levers on single shot's are like ladies hairdooz and wigs. You can change them as your desires change or locations change. I like it. Fancy but not to frilly..

Jack,

That lever looks like one of Bo Clerke's castings.