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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Krag Schuetzen? (Read 1380 times)
waterman
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A Krag Schuetzen?
Jun 17th, 2025 at 5:42pm
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Yep, I know it isn't a single shot.  It is an Model 1892 Krag-Jorgensen infantry rifle, caliber .30-40 Krag, but with a Schuetzen stock and a vernier (maybe?) tang sight.

Is it a Schuetzen?  Or is this just a hunting rifle with a very full curve buttplate?  Does anyone recognize the tang sight?

SN for the receiver dates from July or August 1895.  What a lot of work! 
  
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waterman
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #1 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 5:49pm
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Here's a photo with the bolt open.

These photos and others were posted on the Krag Collectors forum.  Nobody seems to know anything about it.  I'm here thinking someone might know more.
  
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GT
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #2 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 5:56pm
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The tang sight is a Farrow...
  

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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #3 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 6:18pm
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Thats a beautiful rifle. If I came across that Id buy it in an instant.
I always wanted a nice sporterized Krag
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #4 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 6:21pm
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Early Fred Adolph target/sporter model?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Joe Do...
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #5 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 6:26pm
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I am with rifleman. I would have bought it in an instant too !
  
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.22-5-40
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #6 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 6:29pm
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1912 Olympic free rifle?....look on 1912 Olympic site..one fellow holding Martini rifle with what looks to be a tang site.
  
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waterman
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #7 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 6:58pm
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The barrel and front sight appear to be original military issue.  The barrel sight is an ordinary Model 1892.  As is the front sight.  The Model 1892 infantry rifle came with a long "under the barrel" cleaning rod, maybe the rod under the barrel in this photo.  The thimble to hold the rod was added, perhaps copying those on Officer's Model Trapdoors.
  
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waterman
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #8 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 7:24pm
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GT wrote on Jun 17th, 2025 at 5:56pm:
The tang sight is a Farrow...


Oh my!  Can I imagine a Farrow connection?   

Farrow was a modernist.  As soon as smokeless powder and jacketed bullets appeared, he largely abandoned black powder and lead bullets.  Single shots were obsolete, relics of the past.

Farrow shot Krags in competition at Sea Girt.  He was an officer in the District of Columbia National Guard, shot on their team and competed as an NRA member in non-military matches, including the 800-900 & 1,000 yard matches.   

In the military competitions, he shot an "issue" Krag rifle, but almost certainly one he had worked over.  But there were "any rifle" matches also, and Farrow's name is on the score sheets.  In the 1908 "any rifle" matches, Farrow used a Winchester High Wall in .30-40 Krag.
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #9 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 9:28pm
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Farrow-related or otherwise, that's a terrific rifle that would make me giddy with delight. I'd trade most anything I've ever owned for one like that. Thanks for the photos.
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #10 - Jun 17th, 2025 at 9:54pm
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Mercy, I wish it were mine!

Just goes to show what happens with a little ingenuity and a sense of aesthetics.
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #11 - Jun 18th, 2025 at 7:36am
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It’s really nice.

Boats
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #12 - Jun 18th, 2025 at 9:39am
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Dick,
That is one of the prettiest Krag's I can remember seeing and I'm a bit of a Krag snob.  I have a stripped action that now has a plan, thanks for sharing.

I attached a couple pics of an original Farrow sight, except for the eyepiece embellishment and the font on it is one of the comparing factors.  The PU sights have a little different font.   Compare if you can.   
Greg
  

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"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #13 - Jun 18th, 2025 at 11:50am
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That is one drop dead beautiful Krag. Interestingly, the front sight blade will fit a trapdoor (especially good to fix those high shooting battle sights at 100), a Krag, and an 03 Springfield. So will the butt plate screws (not this one, of course). All told me by a former armorer.
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #14 - Jun 19th, 2025 at 12:22pm
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Gorgeous rifle and a design I never caught up to. So many interesting elements and features. Thanks for offering this up. 

BTW the stock maker sure took a healthy bite out of the stock for bolt landing 

Rick
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #15 - Jun 19th, 2025 at 1:27pm
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i just about fell out of my recliner !      i have a sporterized Krag with a mint bore and a rear peep sight. after seeing this one i will be looking to put a tang sight on mine. it likes the 220 grain original style bullet very well. now to find a pistol grip stock. yowzeees !
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #16 - Jun 19th, 2025 at 3:19pm
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Here is a Feuerstutzen based on a Mauser 88 carbine. Ad says the front of the barrel is rust pitted. The price is not unreasonable so thought about getting to rebarrel

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If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #17 - Jun 19th, 2025 at 4:39pm
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"BTW the stock maker sure took a healthy bite out of the stock for bolt landing "

Rick [/quote]

I think he  just took the angle that the bolt handle took from the action and kept the slopes all the way to keep the area uniform. No weaker than if he'd used an ugly straight slot out from the action. I like it.
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #18 - Jun 19th, 2025 at 4:51pm
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calledflyer wrote on Jun 19th, 2025 at 4:39pm:
 

"BTW the stock maker sure took a healthy bite out of the stock for bolt landing "

Rick


I think he  just took the angle that the bolt handle took from the action and kept the slopes all the way to keep the area uniform. No weaker than if he'd used an ugly straight slot out from the action. I like it. [/quote]

My comment had no bearing on quality or strength it was just something that caught my eye and like the entire package it's  " gorgeous "

Rick
  
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marlinguy
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #19 - Jun 19th, 2025 at 5:33pm
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I think with such a narrow piece of wood between magazine and bolt handle the stock maker likely beveled it to make it less likely the edges would get chipped off. Pretty good idea I think.
  

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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #20 - Jun 19th, 2025 at 6:35pm
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Schwarzstock, there is a lot of barrel out there and you don't need the front sight with the scope. Just whack off the bad part and you have a nice 8.15x46R or even turn the bad part into a bloop tube and keep the looks.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #21 - Jun 20th, 2025 at 5:28am
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I need to find out what "front of the barrel" is.....
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #22 - Jun 20th, 2025 at 10:36am
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calledflyer wrote on Jun 19th, 2025 at 4:39pm:
 

"BTW the stock maker sure took a healthy bite out of the stock for bolt landing "

Rick


Nah, the stocker merely mimicked the bolt cutout that was a design feature on military M1892 & M1896 Krag rifles and carbines. It was eliminated on the M1898's and replaced with a simple straight slot.

I think he  just took the angle that the bolt handle took from the action and kept the slopes all the way to keep the area uniform. No weaker than if he'd used an ugly straight slot out from the action. I like it. [/quote]
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #23 - Jun 22nd, 2025 at 4:28pm
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Hello,

I’m the current owner of the rifle .. I’m am trying to get as much information as I can on the piece. With a daughter going into college I am thinking of moving this piece along but want to educate myself on it as much as I can before making any decisions..


Thanks 
Chris L
  
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waterman
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #24 - Jun 28th, 2025 at 3:42pm
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I've spent a lot of time looking for anything that would tie this marvelous old Krag to W. Milton Farrow or to the NRA and New Jersey National Guard matches at Sea Girt.  I'd pretty much struck out until I found a reference in the NRA's Annual Report for 1904.  The report on the Schuetzen match listed 10 competitors.  An asterisk (*) preceded the names of 3 competitors.  At the end of the match report, the asterisk indicated shot with "Krag" rifle.  "Krag" was in quotations, implying (to me) that it was not an ordinary Krag.

The Sea Girt Schuetzen match was shot at 200 yards using the German 25-ring target.  The target is the same as we use today, but there were 25 rings, hence the name.  Bigger paper?

It was an offhand match, shot with the body free of support.  Rules were "any rifle, any sight, any caliber, set triggers allowed.  Cleaning between shots allowed". A Krag shooting military cartridges would be very much of a handicap.  A *Krag fitted with a stock designed for offhand shooting, firing handloads with cast bullets, might be competitive.

The match at Sea Girt was a 3-shot re-entry match.  As I understand it, each competitor stood at the firing point, probably next to a loading bench, and slowly fired 3 shots at his target.  After Shooter A fired his 3 shots, it was Shooter B's turn.  After all shooters had fired at their first targets, the second round of competition began, and after that, the third and final round.  Each shooter could score a maximum of 75 points per target.  3 target scores were added for the final score, with 225 points being maximum. It's a long, slow match.  Plenty of time to share the *Krag, unless there were 3. Were there 3?

Owen Smith won, 213 points.  Harry Pope, 2nd with 211.  Dr. Walter G. Hudson, 4th with 209.  *Pvt. Robert Lee Pile, D.C. Natl Guard, was 6th with 208.  *James G. Dillin was 8th with another 208.  *Capt. William C. Gannon, N.J. Natl Guard, was 9th with 204.  I've learned about Pile and Gannon, but not much about Dillin. Maybe his name was misspelled.

Was there more than one *Krag?  I'll bet not.  Where was Farrow? He'd had an argument with the NRA's Board of Directors over annual memberships and lost.  His name doesn't appear in the 1904 Annual Report.  But was he at Sea Girt with the rifle?

« Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2025 at 3:49pm by waterman »  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #25 - Jun 28th, 2025 at 3:47pm
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Chris posted these 2 full length photos on the Krag site.
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #26 - Jun 28th, 2025 at 4:43pm
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Good heavens look at that stock.  Hey am I the first guy that posted an ‘I’d buy that’?!?!! Cheesy
  
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Re: A Krag Schuetzen?
Reply #27 - Jun 29th, 2025 at 3:52pm
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It is on the chopping block as they say…
  
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