Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic Symptoms of inadequate luberication (Read 205 times)
SteveOKo922
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 17
Location: Olympia
Joined: Jan 29th, 2023
Symptoms of inadequate luberication
Apr 28th, 2025 at 2:18pm
Print Post  
Shooting primarily paper patch military single shot rifles, i utilize grease cookies under my patched bullets. Most of what I shoot are the .433-.446 calibers and they all perform well with a .125 cookie. I recently run Into an issue with a French gras I've been working up a load for and am getting wild groups. The rifle is stringing vertically by several feet, each climbing higher. I'm using a rest and the rifle is secure so my breathing shouldn't affect it. I ran out of cartridges before I could apply more lube to the outside to see if that was the issue.
   
Long story short, what do groups start doing when you have inadequate lube? Verticle stringing? Horizontal? Shotgun like patterns?? Never ran into this issue
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RSW
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1221
Location: Arizona
Joined: Sep 8th, 2006
Re: Symptoms of inadequate luberication
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2025 at 2:41pm
Print Post  
As this is an anomaly for you, have you checked to see that the action screws are tight? Perhaps a crack in the stock you didn't notice before?
Just trying to throw out a couple of what-if's.
  

Randy W
ASSRA 10211  -  ISSA 125
There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MartiniBelgian
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1705
Location: Aarschot
Joined: Jun 7th, 2004
Re: Symptoms of inadequate luberication
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2025 at 2:46pm
Print Post  
FWIW, I shoot my Martini's the same way - PP and grease cookie.  However, my lube wads are considerably thicker - about 3 times yours, maybe more.  And I use a softish lube.
I still blowtube between shots, however.
This in No.2 Musket and .45 turk, 577-450.  Shooting mainly groove-diameter bullets.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
rgchristensen
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1140
Joined: Jan 2nd, 2014
Re: Symptoms of inadequate luberication
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2025 at 2:47pm
Print Post  
STEVE:

First thing is to make a chamber cast to see what you are dealing with.  Many of these muskets had the chambers bushed in conversion from needle-guns.   I prefer sulfur for chamber casts, as it is cheaper and more fool-proof than the oft-recommended “Cerro-Safe”.   Don’t be afraid to use larger diameter bullets.   In one of the Swiss rifles, I have best results with a .328” diameter bullet in a groove diameter of .299”.  I presume that you are using BP of a suitable grade.

CHRIS
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SteveOKo922
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 17
Location: Olympia
Joined: Jan 29th, 2023
Re: Symptoms of inadequate luberication
Reply #4 - Apr 28th, 2025 at 3:14pm
Print Post  
Thabks for the replys everyone. I successfully shoot with orginal military loads several trapdoors, peabodys, 71 mauser, berdans, vetterlis WITH black powder only.

The rifle I'm having issues with is a French Gras. For 4 years I have not been able to get this sucker on paper. The rifle is sound, barrel bands tight and action screws secure. I fit the fattest bullet I can chamber, grease groove and pp alike in the case neck. The gras is finicky as it has two fixed rear sight settings. 

The only difference between the gras and the other rifles I mentioned is that the difference in the groove diameter compared to the bullet diameter is significantly bigger. The .446 bullet has to expand to nearly .454 to fit the grooves. I use the same bullet for all my 11mm rifles and it's proven to work....the French rifle has been keeping me up at night. I'm loading 80 grains of 1.5 swiss to give that bullet all I can to make it bump up to the rifling. No damage to the bore or crown to speak of.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SteveOKo922
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 17
Location: Olympia
Joined: Jan 29th, 2023
Re: Symptoms of inadequate luberication
Reply #5 - Apr 28th, 2025 at 3:28pm
Print Post  
I'm debating get a. 446 sizer to size down some hollow base .459 trapdoor bullet to help expand the bullet. It's been very challenging to find anyone on the internet who shoots these gras rifles with any success and write about it.   

Now the orginal Gras cartridge was loaded with an even smaller lead and later hardened bullet with paper patch. It was a .433 patched to ~.442...way under what a fired case neck could comfortably fit...this is the case in all the French gras rifle I own....I HAVE TO BEMISSING SOMTHING
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint