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40-70 straight loads (Read 1062 times)

bobw Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1718 Location: NW, Iowa Joined: Mar 19^th, 2013	40-70 straight loads Apr 22^nd, 2025 at 11:08am	Print Post
	I could use some load info in order test this gun I’m working on. I have a bullet mold that a friend loaned me, looks to be 400 grain. I’m also using 405 brass full length, sized in a 40-70 die. Smokeless loads would be nice to use, if I have the powder. I do have black powder so that might be the best way to go. I think I have cartridge grade and 2f Goex around here somewhere, and I know I have 3f. Thanks Bob

	Robert Warren
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16732 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #1 - Apr 22^nd, 2025 at 11:25am	Print Post
	My go to load for all of my rifles in .40-70SS and .40-70 Ballard is 22.0 grs. of 4198 with the 410 gr. Snover bullet. Extremely accurate, and under 20,000 psi chamber pressure. I shoot this out to 1000 yds. with good results. It does have a bit of recoil, so if you are sensitive to recoil you might drop a couple grains to 20.0 grs.

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Longdistance1 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 448 Location: Amidon, ND Joined: Feb 11^th, 2013	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #2 - Apr 22^nd, 2025 at 1:07pm	Print Post
	I used 18.5 gr of Sr 4759 with a 350 gr bullet worked pretty well with a sewer pipe bore. LD1


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KFW Oldtimer Offline Posts: 575 Location: Powell Wy. Joined: Dec 18^th, 2016	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #3 - Apr 22^nd, 2025 at 3:01pm	Print Post
	Mine is a 14" twist, PP DD 420Gr. 1 1/2 swiss, 1 poly wad .405 brass also. Smokeless is sacrilegious! 7-800yds is barley doable, 1000 yds in the wind..... never.


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jhm Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1678 Location: georgia Joined: Sep 4^th, 2011	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #4 - Apr 22^nd, 2025 at 9:46pm	Print Post
	I'm with Marlinguy. Little 4198 and a Snover bullet. Hard to beat. My Hi Wall loves them. JMH


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Bulseyetom Oldtimer Offline Posts: 975 Location: Santa Maria, Ca Joined: Oct 31^st, 2010	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #5 - Apr 22^nd, 2025 at 10:24pm	Print Post
	Is your chamber cut for full length 405 brass? The original 40-70 is only 2.50". I have two 40-70's and one is 2.5 and the other set up for 2.58" brass. My favorite powder is 5744 as I have more of it than 4198. Tom


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GT Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2116 Location: Northeast Wyoming Joined: Jun 28^th, 2015	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #6 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 12:55am	Print Post
	Bob, I shoot a Ballard I built in 40-70SS occasionally. If the wind stays below 10 mph, it does fairly well out to about 700 yards, beyond that with almost any wind it takes a lot of focus and a really good spotter. My favorite pill I run in it is a 444 grain Creedmoor design from a NEI mold Walt made quite a few years ago. I've shot this with a load of OE, 1-1/2 Swiss, a couple of duplex loads but hands down my best performer was 5744. Pay close attention to neck tension and charge to charge consistency with your smokeless, primers are critcal - I run LR magnum. Contrary to what KFW says it isn't sacrilegious but it does push him near the edge if you whoop him in a match burning this new fangled powder and greasers. GT

	"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Oakdale Junior Member Offline Posts: 65 Location: Maplewood, MN Joined: Jun 7^th, 2017	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #7 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 8:03am	Print Post
	My 40 cal. 2 1/2 (barrel stamp) is a 2009 CSA Model 74. It has never seen smokeless. Right now a Paul Jones 416-grain Money bullet and 68 of OE 1 1/2. Cases are 405 Winch trimmed to 2 1/2”. Badger 1:16 barrel. My only variables are type of wads, how many and primer selection. Tom


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bobw Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1718 Location: NW, Iowa Joined: Mar 19^th, 2013	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #8 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 12:05pm	Print Post
	Bulseyetom wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2025 at 10:24pm: Is your chamber cut for full length 405 brass? The original 40-70 is only 2.50". I have two 40-70's and one is 2.5 and the other set up for 2.58" brass. My favorite powder is 5744 as I have more of it than 4198. Tom Tom, yes, I cut the chamber with a reamer for full length 405 brass. Bob
	« Last Edit: Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 12:13pm by bobw »
	Robert Warren
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bobw Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1718 Location: NW, Iowa Joined: Mar 19^th, 2013	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #9 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 12:34pm	Print Post
	Thanks everyone. Not looking for accuracy at this point, just want to test this new fame. Looks like I will find some 4198 or 5744. Might be easier to get one of these than moving a 500 pound granite surface plate to get to my back powder supply drawer. But, when I start shooting targets I think I’m using the black. This conversation reminded me of something I read a few years back. I think it was 4198 powder that one of the guys that wrote for the Double Gun magazine had a formula he used to convert black powder loads to the 4198 as a starter load. It was either Sherman Bell or the guy that was a professional hunter in Africa, that now lives in Montana I think. Anyone remember the formula or the article. Not that I doubt the information here, and will use it, but I’m curious how close your loads are to what his formula is now that the memory of the article has returned. Bob

	Robert Warren
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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1151 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #10 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 1:23pm	Print Post
	i believe it is 40%4198 verses a full load of black


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16732 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #11 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 4:06pm	Print Post
	I think you're right Art. I haven't ever found my 4198 loads to be that hot, but I do see a lot of data using 4198 that is about 40%. It's just a bit uncomfortable on my shoulder to load them that high.

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sureshot Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 323 Location: Snohomish Joined: May 27^th, 2007	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #12 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 7:54pm	Print Post
	I seem to remember it was Ross Seyfried that used that 40% nitro for black formula with 4198 in loading for the old black powder express cartridges. Steve 😀


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bobw Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1718 Location: NW, Iowa Joined: Mar 19^th, 2013	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #13 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 8:04pm	Print Post
	Ross Seyfried is the PH’s name. Always like both of those guys articles. Bob

	Robert Warren
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Oleblacksmith Participating Member Offline Posts: 29 Joined: Jan 10^th, 2024	Re: 40-70 straight loads Reply #14 - Apr 23^rd, 2025 at 8:42pm	Print Post
	You might to pick up the latest Lyman Cast Bullet handbook and all your questions will be answered regarding smokeless powders.


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