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Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber (Read 2136 times)

1Hawkeye Full Member Offline Posts: 203 Location: South end of Northern Virginia Joined: Jun 29^th, 2019	Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Apr 11^th, 2025 at 10:41pm	Print Post
	I've got a .50-70 shiloh sharps thats driving me up the wall it's a early Farmingdale with the chamber cut for paper patch bullets. I've tried a bunch of different loads in it but it just doesn't shoot as good as my others. It's about a 2 1/2" to 3" rifle at 100 yards using the lee and lyman 450gr grease groove bullets. I have another shiloh with a paper patch chamber in .45-70 thats an earlier Farmingdale that will shoot cloverleaf groups till your bored with it. I don't want to start rolling patches will seating the bullet out further work or maybe a longer heavier bullet?


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TomKlinger Full Member Offline Posts: 191 Location: Central Florida Joined: Feb 17^th, 2019	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #1 - Apr 12^th, 2025 at 7:03am	Print Post
	1Hawkeye, The early Farmingdale chambers had free-bore. A lot of free-bore. It was intended to set the bullet out to obtain the full charge of black powder in the cartridge. Not necessarily for paper patch. When those guns were built, very few were shooting paper patch. Problem is, that a lot of them were over bored. A 50cal with a .500 bore and a .508 groove would have free-bore diameter of .512. The same problem with all the calibers. The only way I can get my 50 to shoot well is with paper patch or use a .512 dia. grease groove bullet set out touching the rifling. Most of the Farmingdale rifles have been re-barreled by now. Hope this helps Tom Klinger


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1Hawkeye Full Member Offline Posts: 203 Location: South end of Northern Virginia Joined: Jun 29^th, 2019	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #2 - Apr 12^th, 2025 at 5:31pm	Print Post
	Thanks Tom, I'm going to do a chamber cast and see how far l need to seat them. I tried some this morning that I seated out 2 grease grooves and had better results but also found out that 4227 is position sensitive. The bullets are sized to .512"


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Babydriver Full Member Offline Posts: 177 Joined: Mar 22^nd, 2024	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #3 - Apr 12^th, 2025 at 11:59pm	Print Post
	For position sensitive powders just stick a small ball of cotton in and take a dowel and pack it down. I actually do it with all of my powders.


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1722 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #4 - Apr 13^th, 2025 at 12:26pm	Print Post
	Sound like a recipe for chamber ringing to me...


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JKR Full Member Offline Posts: 105 Joined: Nov 2^nd, 2021	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #5 - Apr 13^th, 2025 at 1:04pm	Print Post
	MartiniBelgian wrote on Apr 13^th, 2025 at 12:26pm: Sound like a recipe for chamber ringing to me... I agree! And go Black Powder. You’ll see an increase in accuracy I’ll bet. Shoot it the way it’s meant to be shot!


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1Hawkeye Full Member Offline Posts: 203 Location: South end of Northern Virginia Joined: Jun 29^th, 2019	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #6 - Apr 13^th, 2025 at 3:25pm	Print Post
	O trust me guys I know better than to use a filler I've seen a couple of nice pieces wrecked because of filler. I'd shoot black powder but I just don't want to deal with cleaning the brass when I'm done. Plus I shoot alot and don't have much brass for this one.


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SteveOKo922 Participating Member Offline Posts: 42 Location: Olympia Joined: Jan 29^th, 2023	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #7 - Apr 17^th, 2025 at 10:23am	Print Post
	Try a heavier bullet or stronger crimp to give the bullet some time and pressure to fill the grooves


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1Hawkeye Full Member Offline Posts: 203 Location: South end of Northern Virginia Joined: Jun 29^th, 2019	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #8 - May 10^th, 2025 at 10:14pm	Print Post
	Well l finally got time to do a chamber cast and it revealed the problem. There's a gap between the end of the chamber to the start of the rifling of around .510" so l'm thinking to fix the rifle its either a rebarrel or punch it up to a .50 2 1/2" and l don't think l'd want a .50-90


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1722 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #9 - May 11^th, 2025 at 8:13am	Print Post
	That's called a Freebore - and if you get a bullet that fills up that freebore by having an appropriate dia.section outside the case (like .509) , you're good to go, it will shoot.
	« Last Edit: May 11^th, 2025 at 8:22am by MartiniBelgian »

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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2509 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #10 - May 11^th, 2025 at 9:05am	Print Post
	Those Farmingdale chambers were called paper patch chambers by some, but they are far from ideal for paper patched bullets. The very long freebore is slightly tapered from what I've seen of other peoples chamber casts. A long freebore isn't necessarily bad. I have a Borchardt built by Curt Hardcastle and it has a very long, but perfectly cylindrical freebore about 0.0005" larger than groove. It shoots very well. The diameter and taper in the Farmingdale freebore is, I suspect, the problem with those rifles and the reason that so many of them have been rebarreled. Chris.


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DoubleD Oldtimer Offline Posts: 741 Location: Edmond Joined: Feb 14^th, 2006	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #11 - May 11^th, 2025 at 9:08am	Print Post
	Babydriver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2025 at 11:59pm: For position sensitive powders just stick a small ball of cotton in and take a dowel and pack it down. I actually do it with all of my powders. If you pack it down and leave an airspace, especially a cylindrical airspace as Martini Belgium-Gert says, that is a recipe for ringing. Filler is okay, as long as it fills the entire air space.

	Douglas, Ret.
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1Hawkeye Full Member Offline Posts: 203 Location: South end of Northern Virginia Joined: Jun 29^th, 2019	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #12 - May 11^th, 2025 at 11:58am	Print Post
	I'm using a .512" diameter 450 gr that's seated out just about as far as it can go and the rifle still doesn't group as it should.


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1722 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #13 - May 11^th, 2025 at 1:30pm	Print Post
	Well, .512 bullet will never fit in a .510 freebore ...


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TomKlinger Full Member Offline Posts: 191 Location: Central Florida Joined: Feb 17^th, 2019	Re: Grease groove bullet in paper patch chamber Reply #14 - May 11^th, 2025 at 5:31pm	Print Post
	I think he’s saying it has .510 free bore length, not diameter. I had to shoot a 750g .512 wrapped diameter paper patch bullet in my 50/140. The patched section is .525 length out of the case. The round is not for recoil sensitive folks…..but it does shoot very well!


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