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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polymer coated bullet/BPCR (Read 2000 times)
Babydriver
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Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Mar 4th, 2025 at 5:33pm
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Can polymer coated bullets be used in sanctioned matches?
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #1 - Mar 4th, 2025 at 5:35pm
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No.
  

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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #2 - Mar 5th, 2025 at 9:19am
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Nor the Quigley (and presumably other traditional rifle gong shoots) either.

However, Texasmac is experimenting with them on the Shiloh web site, so the results should be interesting.  If the polymer is tough enough to handle the black powder fouling, and the coating can be put on uniformly enough to not limit accuracy, somebody ought to find some use for them somewhere; in the hunting fields, for instance.
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #3 - Mar 5th, 2025 at 9:53am
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Its kind of an interesting thought what Wayne wants to try. He wants to use powder coating on bullets to replace paper  on a PP style bullet.  I will be interested to see if it works. I feel pretty sure the fouling  will not be an issue because you would have to clean after each shot same as you would shooting PP bullets.
Personally I dont think a PC bullet would work as a replacement for a gg bullet unless you clean after each shot, JMHO.   
If it were allowed, PC could be used as a way to increase the diameter of a bullet and then Paper Patch it. I have some slicks that are what I consider way undersize for mey .45 barrel but a layer of PC brings them up pretty close to what they need to be for a PP bullet. 
However, rules are rules, the experiment will be interesting. I guess only time will tell. 
Sam
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #4 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 10:38am
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I don’t see anything in the NRA rule book that excludes the powder coated bullets, just metal coated. I suppose a check with the competions dept might clear that up. The only gong matches I’m aware of that prohibit them are the 3 in Montana, they are acceptable at the Alliance Ne matches and several of the smokeless shooters use them there
  
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Babydriver
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #5 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 6:19pm
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The first answer from an Assra board member was NO. 
It would seem that different matches may or may not but that isn’t the question. It is are they allowed at so called BPCR sanctioned matches?
The NRA black powder target rules says-
Section 3.17 “bullets must be entirely composed of lead or of a lead alloy.
Section 3.18 “ all devices or equipment which may facilitate shooting and whi h are not mentioned in these rules or which are contrary to he spirit of these rules and regulations are prohibited “. 
As they say”the devil is in the details “. 
Polymer coating are not lead or lead alloy. 
And what is the spirit of these rules? In my opinion it’s to shoot them like they did in the good ole days.
  
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TomKlinger
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #6 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 6:33pm
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It all means NO! The whole idea is to shoot early target, and BPCR rifles the way they were used back in the day. Black powder, lead bullets or paper patch. If you want to shoot polymers, you need to find another venue that allows them in competition. You’ll do a lot better if you don’t try to skate the rules.

Tom Klinger
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #7 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 6:45pm
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The rules also goes on to sat the bullets may be lubed, isn’t the polymer coating used in place of lube?
Always get the grins when folks go off about the spirit of the game, and rant and rave about Ldpe and hope or wads punched from plastic milk cartons.
Myself I’ll stick with paper patch as there is no solid reference to grease groove/naked bullets ever fired at Creedmoor, let alone any grease groove of Creedmoor typ being offered by Sharps, Remington or Winchester Cheesy
  
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texasmac
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #8 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 7:31pm
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Since I’m the one that started the BPCR polymer coating thread on the Shiloh forum, please allow me to make a few comments on the subject concerning using them in NRA sanctioned matches.  The experiment, which I have not started at this time but bullets have been ordered, will solely be a feasibility study to see if the coating will be effective on grooved bullet and replacing the paper patch on slick bullets.

With that said, yes, there are several matches held around the country that do not allow using coated bullets.  And as I said in the Shiloh forum thread, I imagine my local club (the Yaupon Creek Silhouette Association) would not allow coated bullets, although it's not in our rules & I'm the VP. Even if it turns out the accuracy results are acceptable for BPCR silhouette, I would not use them in competition. And although the current NRA rules do not mention coated bullets, or grease-groove bullets for that matter, I expect it's only a matter-of-time & coated bullets will be specifically excluded.

As to what is considered to be “in the spirit of the rules for NRA Silhouette competition”, I generally agree with Ranch13’s comments.  Is using synthetic wads or even grease-groove bullets in the spirit of the rules?  I think I can safely say there were no buffalos shot with bullets using LDPE wads, & I’ve never read where grease-groove bullets were used although I know the patching paper was greased by some.

BTW, I’m also planning on experimenting with knurled grease-groove & knurled slick bullets (both lubed).  Some of the match directors don’t seem to have a problem with using knurled bullets.  Knurling a bullet makes it capable of holding a lot of lube, & can also be used to increase the diameter, a benefit in some cases.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2025 at 8:33pm by texasmac »  

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Ranch13
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #9 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 7:54pm
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Wayne several years back Kurt Altenburg was talking about using knurled bullets and asI recall he got thoroughly tronsed 
In staying within the current NRArules about as close as you can get to the aerodynamics of a paper patch bullet is the mini groove money bullet, but those take a really good wiping routine to keep from turning the barrel to a lead lined pipe
  
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texasmac
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #10 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 8:27pm
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Ranch13 wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 7:54pm:
Wayne several years back Kurt Altenburg was talking about using knurled bullets and asI recall he got thoroughly tronsed 
In staying within the current NRArules about as close as you can get to the aerodynamics of a paper patch bullet is the mini groove money bullet, but those take a really good wiping routine to keep from turning the barrel to a lead lined pipe


Don,

I've had several recent discussions with Kurt on the subject.  I may be borrowing his Corbin knurler to knurl a few for testing.  One of the possible negatives may be a reduction of BC.  If I do get around to testing knurled bullets, it will be interesting to see what happens down range.

Wayne
  

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Ranch13
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #11 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 8:46pm
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Wayne scratching a curiosity itch is always a good thing, usually. 
Kurt has messed with a lot of different bullet stuff so it’s good you’re talking with him.
At any rate I’m looking forward to seeing how your testing this out of the norm stuff goes
Shoot can you imagine how the internet buzzed when that first guy said wonder if there’s something better than this powder horn and round balls😂
  
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Babydriver
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #12 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 9:19pm
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I brought up the polymer question because I asked a match group I shoot in (supposedly following NRA rules) if a Swiss butt plate could be used. The answer is no and I fully unquestionably accept that. But he was so emphatic that it wasn’t allowed I asked him about him using polymer coated bullets which he does. answer, “well we make certain exceptions “. But we go by the NRA rules. Uhh?
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #13 - Mar 6th, 2025 at 9:35pm
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Silhouette and BPTR rules both prohibit schuetzen style butt plates. Siloette also has rules about comb height. The pc bullet thing is somewhat of a gray area and the only way to get a definitive answer would be to ask NRA competitions for a clarification.
  
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Maynard Buff
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #14 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 3:15pm
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Babydriver wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 9:19pm:
I brought up the polymer question because I asked a match group I shoot in (supposedly following NRA rules) if a Swiss butt plate could be used. The answer is no and I fully unquestionably accept that. But he was so emphatic that it wasn’t allowed I asked him about him using polymer coated bullets which he does. answer, “well we make certain exceptions “. But we go by the NRA rules. Uhh?


Not sure you spoke with one of the match directors.  I think you spoke with a competitor who doesn't set the rules for the Ram Bash.   
  
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Babydriver
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #15 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 4:01pm
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Agreed and understand. I posed the question to everyone on the email list which included the match director. This member was the only one who responded.
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #16 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 4:51pm
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My response was only in regard to ASSRA sanctioned matches.
  

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo

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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #17 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 5:17pm
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One could probably argue easier for plated or jacketed bullets to be allowed based on when they became available. Past the days of the great Buffalo hunts, but still at the tail end of black powder. At least you could argue “of the era” and predating some of the rifles allowed.

Makes more sense than Plastic coating.
  
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Babydriver
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #18 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 7:35pm
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To Maynard Buff
I never mentioned any particular match or individual.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #19 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:59am
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why do we spend so much time and effort in finding a way to subvert the rules of a chosen game? I concur with questioning the 'grey' areas of rules and guidelines, but once determined, just go along. Personally, I have shot a lot of stuff that was outside of the sport's norm, but never even considered using the same in a competition.
Well, once. In an egg shooting match with muzzleloaders, where misses required the shooter to eat the raw egg that had been hung on string. I saw no restriction regarding the use of multiple balls (or shot Roll Eyes) and loaded the rifle with the contents of a shot shell wrapped in a patch. Didn't work for whatever reason-dumb luck, failure to spread out as the wrapping still contained the shot, or spread out too much- and I ended up being one of two seen eating a raw egg. No more rule bending for me.
  
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waterman
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #20 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 5:26pm
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Getting away from traditional rifles and match rules, how well might a smooth (no grease grooves) polymer-coated bullet work in a barrel with polygonal rifling?
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #21 - Mar 11th, 2025 at 1:11pm
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I would think that how well a coated bullet works in a polygon barrel would depend a lot on diameters.  I have played with coated bullets some and in some instances they seem to work just fine.  It does save you messing with sticky lubes and such on your bullets. Some down sides I have run into it is it does increase bullet size including the nose. For me that has been an issue a few times in rifles.  Kind of an unrecognized error if you will. 
As far as BPCR loads go, I don't feel, and this just my opinion, that there is any real advantage. You  would need to have a clean barrel for each shot other wise I would think that you would run the risk of having that coating smear in the barrel and I don't think its all that easy to remove. 
Could there be an upside? I think that there is a small one. I have some bullets that are what I consider a bit too small for PP bullets in a .45. A layer of PC on them brings them up very close to the right size, or at least close enough to give them a try. 
I do wonder if the coating will leave a colored splash on the animals when it hits them? 
Sam
  
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1Hawkeye
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #22 - Mar 11th, 2025 at 5:59pm
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From what I've seen they don't make a colored splash on the steel and what ever you do don't toss one back in the lead pot. That stuff stinks like you wouldn't believe.
  
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #23 - Mar 11th, 2025 at 6:32pm
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1Hawkeye wrote on Mar 11th, 2025 at 5:59pm:
From what I've seen they don't make a colored splash on the steel and what ever you do don't toss one back in the lead pot. That stuff stinks like you wouldn't believe.


Greetings,

I tested some "coated" ammo for some friends. The fumes while firing were obnoxious. 

I read the MSDS sheet and decided no coated bullets for me.

If someone is shooting coated bullets at a Pistol Match, I move to a downwind firing point.

Cheers,

Dave
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #24 - Mar 11th, 2025 at 7:25pm
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Maybe the smell has to do with who's coating you are using. I had a slight mis adventure when I went to cook my bullets. I thought I would put them in the oven and then turn it on. Bad Move, glad I was only doing about 2 dozen, they ended going back in the pot and I didn't really notice any bad odor from remelting them. I do however use Carnuba wax as a flux and that may have helped some to mask the smell. 
Sam
  
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Re: Polymer coated bullet/BPCR
Reply #25 - Mar 18th, 2025 at 7:07pm
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1Hawkeye wrote on Mar 11th, 2025 at 5:59pm:
From what I've seen they don't make a colored splash on the steel and what ever you do don't toss one back in the lead pot. That stuff stinks like you wouldn't believe.

If they are prepared properly the coating should stay on.  I've experimented with them and found no advantage other than not having to lube the bullets.  Have going back to traditional lubing.
  
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