I’ve owned both and now just own the CPA. Better trigger and more accurate.

Which ever you do, I suggest you have it set up with traditional scope blocks on 7.2" spacing & either a front dovetail or holes drilled and tapped for a scope block.  It's never as easy and cheap again to get it done and makes the rifle so much more versatile.

They are both quality rifles that are used in 22BCR matches. You might keep in mind that the chickens are shot off-hand, while the other targets are shot prone. Knowing this, the fit and balance of the rifle, including the length of pull and the configuration of the butt stock are very important. You will do better with a rifle that fits you. The weight and balance also come into play; barrel length and contour (full octagon, 1/2 octagon, full round, #2, #3, or #4 weight). At one time I had a rifle built with a 30” full octagon barrel. It was very difficult for me to hold it up while shooting chickens. I ended up having it cut to 26” and made 1/2 octagon. It made a world of difference. I think either is a good choice, but there other considerations to keep in mind.
I’d suggest going to a match, talk to the shooters, and hopefully you will find one of these rifles that you can look at and handle first hand.

This is not a comment on which brand is better but on the barrel length for off-hand chicken shooting.  In late 2023 I had a Stevens 44 .22 re-barreled with a 20" barrel.  It made a world of difference.  Not only is it more comfortable (better balance) to shoot off-hand, since .22LR velocity drops in barrels longer than 16" to 18", velocity increased significantly over the original 26" barrel, resulting in tighter groups at all distances.  Depending on the ammo, the velocity increased from 30 to 45fps.

Wayne

In addition to action type, barrel length, etc., put serious thought into the buttstock configuration. 
I have two 22RF Lowwalls I have shot in 100 yard silhouette competition. Both are factory original from the 1880s. 
With a scope on rifle #1, stock drop is acceptable, but not ideal for standing, and nearly impossible for prone. 
With an MVA Schuetzen sight on the back and a Shaver globe in front of rifle #2, that rifle works well in either position.
I also have an original Lowwall in 32/20. It has a Lyman 52 rear sight with the factory nickel silver post in front. It has a #1 octagon barrel 26" long, making for magic wand handling.
Honestly, it's the easiest to shoot of all three with the factory stock.

texasmac wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:15am:


Are you shooting a scope so the loss of sight radius is of no concern?

SchwarzStock asked, 
Are you shooting a scope so the loss of sight radius is of no concern?
=============

Yes, I use a 6X scope.

Wayne

rnnhntr, how much ammo testing have you done with your Stevens ? The TJ’s liners are very good liners. Depending what chamber you’re using and how it is set up, your rifle should be capable of better scores. Testing some different match grade ammos at 200 yds, if you haven’t already done that, should tell you what your rifle is capable of. Don’t underestimate how well liners can shoot. I have several rifles with Redman liners (which are the liners used in the Crossno liners) which are very accurate.

Green_Frog wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:16pm:


DZ makes an 1885 extractor located at 9:00 o'clock and has an ejector. I had DZ barrel a low-wall for my young son. It is a good choice.

I used to shoot a Cody Ballard, Baldwin iron sights with a 30 inch barrel and it was 100% capable of hitting everything.  The whole setup was just a little small for me.
Mostly now, I shoot the CPA scoped with the old MVA 28" and Schuetzen scope mount. It has a Douglass 16 twist and delivers for me. It has a very heavy 26 inch round barrel.  I can't shoot light rifles offhand for squat. Short light barrels don't hold for me.
    Texas Mac - I have never shortened a barrel, so I have no experience. Just a comment on velocity.... we have been chronographing our 22rf match ammo (again) since the Garman chrono units came on the scene.  To my surprise, the Eley I shoot has "Eley's" tested lot velocity on the box. each lot is labeled with its own tested velocity,  and I buy it based on their stated velocity. As an example, mine and other rifleman find their ammo runs 40fps +/- over the Eley lot/FPS number  -  well over 1100 FPS  So my question -What would the velocity be if I shot a 16 inch barrel, almost 1200FPS? and how is Eley getting such slow speeds (1065FPS) and what barrel length are they using to test velocity? Super-duper long???

The suggestion of going to a faster than 16 twist is also interesting. I have no direct experience - two low-walls, a Ballard and a CPA. All 16 twist.   GT has been telling me of his testing with fast and really fast twist 22rf's.   I am not sure I could tell!!!   It would take setting up two rifles with ammo it likes and a lot of shooting. Sure sounds like fun!!!
-Michael Rix 

A mix of what I hear, think & know. No particular order.

.22 Rimfire velocity varies depending on temperature 

Button rifled barrels like Douglas are smother than cut rifled.

Muzzle weight reduces gun movement when used offhand 

50 meter machine rest in a tunnel will show which cartridges are most accurate.

Outdoor testing long distance bench rest has enough variables to mask cartridge performance 

If the shooters believes in his outfit he will shoot higher scores 

If results are important use the best you can buy and stay with it 

Boats

The 14 twist doesn’t bother the velocity and the stability at 200 meters is real.
My rifle with the 14 twist placed 1st and 3rd ,2 years running and was the highest iron sight score at the Desert international in Phoenix
I find this rifle to be way less picky about ammo don’t know if it’s the twist or what, but shooting the yellow box Eley Target seems to work quite well.

Choosing a rifle is a tough one, I favor the 1885 over the 44 or the 44-1/2 but I prefer the Ballard over all.   
I am currently shooting silhouettes and long range with a HW and it has a cut rifled, 1:9 twist.  It favors CX from Lapua and the velocity comparison with the same ammo in one of my "run and gun" rifles for NRL is negligible by comparison - it has a short barrel - mainly for convenience around obstacles.  A 20 - 30' fps average variance, doesn't make any difference to me.  If I PRACTICE, that is the real key, shoot good ammo, and believe in my system both of these rifle will keep me in or near the top of the winner's circle.   
Generally a rifle keeps my interest, (contrary to most's thinking) for a season and then a new build catches my focus and my process begins all over.  The High Wall and the Vudoo have both run their course and I have several new build projects in the works.  For the single shot game, this next year there are at least 4 builds in the line-up, one is a CPA but my interests are leaning back towards a Ballard.   
I believe in fast twist, they haven't won me over in the near game, 50'.   At 100 yd and beyond, the bullet rpm (fast) vs. muzzle velocity (slow) has worked well.  The performance of this combination has come closer to matching calculations on paper than the rest.  Numbers work out more often so that's a win, but a single condition change throws a wrench in the works so it raises doubt.   
More info than you asked for rnnhntr, but it's my nickle's worth.
Greg

Reading this thread, some are likely wondering why a few shooters are leaning towards a faster than the long-standard 16-twist for .22LR barrels.  From my point-of-view, it’s being driven by us BPCR & other even longer-range shooters using 40gr & even heavier (Aguila SSS 60 gr.) ammo to knock over those ram steel targets at 200 meters.  We’ve making tradeoffs between bullet weight & velocity while maximizing down-range bullet energy & accuracy, & staying subsonic to reduce instability.  Years ago, when the 16-twist was standardized, 40gr bullets where not all that common.  That’s my view on the subject for what it’s worth.


BTW, a heavier, hence longer, bullet generally requires a faster twist.  If you check out some of the reviews on the relatively new Aguila SSS 60 gr. ammo, you’ll run across examples of it “keyholing” even at 50yds in 16-twist bores indicating 16-twist is too slow.

Wayne

Oakdale wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2025 at 1:06pm:


Tom

Yes, .22BPCR is somewhat of a misnomer.  Black powder is not used but the rules are the same as those that govern big bore BPCR cartridge rifle silhouette, hence the BPCR designation.  We all shoot smokeless .22LR with the vast majority using match-grade ammo.  Course of fire are reduced-sized steel silhouettes at 50M, 100M, 150M & 200M.  The 50M chicken targets are shot offhand, the rest are generally shot prone although offhand is an option for those that don't care about the score. 

The sport is governed by the .22BPCR Association.  Go to (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links). for more details.

Wayne

GT wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2025 at 3:56pm:


Greg,

I hear you & that makes sense for you & your type of competition.  But note that BPCR silhouette not only requires accuracy but sufficient bullet strike energy to reliably knock over the steel targets.  I have watched others & experienced it myself of hitting a 200M ram dead center & it refused to fall over with a 40gr bullet which left the muzzle at just under 1100fps.

If hitting paper or a gong was the main goal than I agree with you that bullet impact energy is a less importance.  BTW, 1100fps muzzle velocity results in 49,500rpm in a 16-twist bore.  Using your 43,600rpm minimum indicates that a 18-twist bore would work, implying that the standard 16-twist is more than sufficient.  Of course this assumes we are both talking about 40gr bullets.

Wayne

I have a .22 LR CPA rifle and a .22 LR BSA Martini International MK II with a match chamber and short leade on a 16:1 twist barrel.

The CPA Silohuette stocked rifle is much better for practicing offhand however the BSA has won many 100 yard (target attached) and 50 BR bench matches using Tenex.
The CPA has a 17.2:1 twist and a long leade which allows cheaper ammo to shoot more effectively.
I also have a .40-60 Maynard barrel for the CPA for BPCR Silhouette matches.

The prone style stock of the BSA does not work well for offhand shooting.

Where does that idea come from that a 14" twist must be appreciably slower than a 16" twist?  Losses will be negligible IMO, and a barrel longer than optimum will probably have more effect than the twist itself.
One could actually make a case of MV being higher because of the higher initial resistance and more pressure being developed.
Just found following article, yes it is not about the .22, but looks into the subject: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
For the long range .22 game, some shooters are even using 9" twist barrels...

Wayne,

Thanks for the explanation. Makes total sense knowing the details.

Reminds me of the handgun silhouette game I shot often, called half size or half scale. Targets are IHMSA Field Pistol or half the size that are used in NRA BPCR at the same distances as the IHMSA Big Bore of 50, 100, 150 and 200-meters. The IHMSA and NRA targets are the same. But no offhand requirement (fortunately!)

IHMSA is a spin-off of the NRA High Power Rifle game. Those distances are the same as BPCR silhouette. The NRA rifle game requires 100% offhand. Elgin Gates and crew started IHMSA using the NRA targets, at shorter distances and different shooting positions and several gun categories (that’s a whole different bucket of worms!).

Tom

Maybe someday I’ll acquire my first .22 rimfire rifle. Right now my first CPA centerfire is due to arrive next week….getting anxious!

Glenn brings up an excellent point on ammo, just because it costs a bunch of money per round, and all the cool kids use it, doesn't mean your rifle is going to like it.
My wife's CSA lowall is a classic example of that, put anything Lapua or SK in that thing and you'll be better off shooting a 410 loaded with #2 bb shot. It likes Norma , and Eley. But we did find that with the Norma tac it will shoot bug hole groups out to the pig line, but beyond that it got dicey. It wasn't until resetting the rams at our rage here at home, some of the few that went over had bullet profile's in the paint. Our miroku built lowall is capable of master scores with SK rifle match, and my original Stevens was capable of breaking the cool kids hearts shooting Aquila rifle match, but unfortunately that ammunition has dried up.
Test different ammo at the 200 meter line on a windy day.

Triggers I really prefer a 2-3 lb crisp single trigger.
Lastly if the ammo you're using in your current rifle tests well on paper at 200 meters, then you might take a hard look at your spotter at the matches.

SSShooter wrote on Feb 25^th, 2025 at 9:58am:


No, I'm talking .22LR, and distances out to 4-500 yds.  I recently saw 2 shooters with their rifles.  Curious, I asked what they were shooting.  The answer was RIMX action, Lothar Walther barrel (more like fencepost) with integrated tuner, with a high-tec scope with electronic cant indicator.  And no, I didn't take a picture.  Match ammo they used was Lapua (long range, super long range, center x), but that day they were training short range (100-200) with 'cheap' SK long range.

Might be a good idea to read the 22BPCRA rules before choosing a barrel. We don’t shoot under their rules my club so no personal experience. They say original barrels allowing liners or replacement barrel that duplicates original. Does duplicate mean twist too ?

Perhaps competitors shooting the game can clarify.

Boats

When it all gets down to where the hammer hits the primer, it doesn't really matter what the action is, High/low wall, CPA, hepburn, Stevens, pick what you like as far as looks and feels go. A good trigger pull is pretty much a must. The barrel is where all the good/bad things happen.
I have a martini that seems to have a very good barrel on it, the trigger is horrible but with the right ammo it will get things done out to 200. Its very important to test your ammo at 200. While things may look pretty good out to 150, those last 50 yards  can be a real game changer. I have shot groups at about 150 or so that I thought were pretty good, move out that last 50 and the wheels just fall right off. 
The barrel and the ammo is where its at, what action you pics is secondary, as long as its consistent.
Sam

I am not sure of the weight limits for the .22 game, but would think that they would be the same as for the center fire guns. If you put a 3.5 or 4 wiight barrel on a .22, that is a pretty stiff barrel. 
I have a 30" 3.5 taper barrel on my 44-77 Pedrosoli rolling block action. The rifle weights 10.5 pounds, reduce the bore to .22 and that should add 1/4 to 1/2 pounds to the weight. 
Having been the RO for a number of these .22 matches,  I feel pretty comfortable saying that most of the shooters will use rifles that are the same configuration and weight as their big bore rifles that they use in the BPCR matches.  Yes the chickens are only at 50 yards but they are pretty small and just as hard to hit as the full sized ones. Big difference is you have to chase them a bit farther when they are waked by a .22.
This game is one that everyone can shoot, come to a match, talk to the shooters, look over what they use. May someone will let you try a few shots, especially at the chickens. You might end up hooked. 
Like I said earlier. Pick the action you like. put a good  barrel on it, a proper match chamber and good sights and give it a try. Everyone should have at least one very good .22. If its good enough there a number of other games out there you can use is for.  Just because it has a hammer sticking out doesn't make it a bad gun for other games. Just makes it unique is all.  And wouldn't it be fun to shoot against all those fancy door latch rifles and win?
Sam