rnnhntr, how much ammo testing have you done with your Stevens ? The TJ’s liners are very good liners. Depending what chamber you’re using and how it is set up, your rifle should be capable of better scores. Testing some different match grade ammos at 200 yds, if you haven’t already done that, should tell you what your rifle is capable of. Don’t underestimate how well liners can shoot. I have several rifles with Redman liners (which are the liners used in the Crossno liners) which are very accurate.

Green_Frog wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:16pm:


DZ makes an 1885 extractor located at 9:00 o'clock and has an ejector. I had DZ barrel a low-wall for my young son. It is a good choice.

I used to shoot a Cody Ballard, Baldwin iron sights with a 30 inch barrel and it was 100% capable of hitting everything.  The whole setup was just a little small for me.
Mostly now, I shoot the CPA scoped with the old MVA 28" and Schuetzen scope mount. It has a Douglass 16 twist and delivers for me. It has a very heavy 26 inch round barrel.  I can't shoot light rifles offhand for squat. Short light barrels don't hold for me.
    Texas Mac - I have never shortened a barrel, so I have no experience. Just a comment on velocity.... we have been chronographing our 22rf match ammo (again) since the Garman chrono units came on the scene.  To my surprise, the Eley I shoot has "Eley's" tested lot velocity on the box. each lot is labeled with its own tested velocity,  and I buy it based on their stated velocity. As an example, mine and other rifleman find their ammo runs 40fps +/- over the Eley lot/FPS number  -  well over 1100 FPS  So my question -What would the velocity be if I shot a 16 inch barrel, almost 1200FPS? and how is Eley getting such slow speeds (1065FPS) and what barrel length are they using to test velocity? Super-duper long???

The suggestion of going to a faster than 16 twist is also interesting. I have no direct experience - two low-walls, a Ballard and a CPA. All 16 twist.   GT has been telling me of his testing with fast and really fast twist 22rf's.   I am not sure I could tell!!!   It would take setting up two rifles with ammo it likes and a lot of shooting. Sure sounds like fun!!!
-Michael Rix 

A mix of what I hear, think & know. No particular order.

.22 Rimfire velocity varies depending on temperature 

Button rifled barrels like Douglas are smother than cut rifled.

Muzzle weight reduces gun movement when used offhand 

50 meter machine rest in a tunnel will show which cartridges are most accurate.

Outdoor testing long distance bench rest has enough variables to mask cartridge performance 

If the shooters believes in his outfit he will shoot higher scores 

If results are important use the best you can buy and stay with it 

Boats

The 14 twist doesn’t bother the velocity and the stability at 200 meters is real.
My rifle with the 14 twist placed 1st and 3rd ,2 years running and was the highest iron sight score at the Desert international in Phoenix
I find this rifle to be way less picky about ammo don’t know if it’s the twist or what, but shooting the yellow box Eley Target seems to work quite well.

Choosing a rifle is a tough one, I favor the 1885 over the 44 or the 44-1/2 but I prefer the Ballard over all.   
I am currently shooting silhouettes and long range with a HW and it has a cut rifled, 1:9 twist.  It favors CX from Lapua and the velocity comparison with the same ammo in one of my "run and gun" rifles for NRL is negligible by comparison - it has a short barrel - mainly for convenience around obstacles.  A 20 - 30' fps average variance, doesn't make any difference to me.  If I PRACTICE, that is the real key, shoot good ammo, and believe in my system both of these rifle will keep me in or near the top of the winner's circle.   
Generally a rifle keeps my interest, (contrary to most's thinking) for a season and then a new build catches my focus and my process begins all over.  The High Wall and the Vudoo have both run their course and I have several new build projects in the works.  For the single shot game, this next year there are at least 4 builds in the line-up, one is a CPA but my interests are leaning back towards a Ballard.   
I believe in fast twist, they haven't won me over in the near game, 50'.   At 100 yd and beyond, the bullet rpm (fast) vs. muzzle velocity (slow) has worked well.  The performance of this combination has come closer to matching calculations on paper than the rest.  Numbers work out more often so that's a win, but a single condition change throws a wrench in the works so it raises doubt.   
More info than you asked for rnnhntr, but it's my nickle's worth.
Greg

Reading this thread, some are likely wondering why a few shooters are leaning towards a faster than the long-standard 16-twist for .22LR barrels.  From my point-of-view, it’s being driven by us BPCR & other even longer-range shooters using 40gr & even heavier (Aguila SSS 60 gr.) ammo to knock over those ram steel targets at 200 meters.  We’ve making tradeoffs between bullet weight & velocity while maximizing down-range bullet energy & accuracy, & staying subsonic to reduce instability.  Years ago, when the 16-twist was standardized, 40gr bullets where not all that common.  That’s my view on the subject for what it’s worth.


BTW, a heavier, hence longer, bullet generally requires a faster twist.  If you check out some of the reviews on the relatively new Aguila SSS 60 gr. ammo, you’ll run across examples of it “keyholing” even at 50yds in 16-twist bores indicating 16-twist is too slow.

Wayne

Oakdale wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2025 at 1:06pm:


Tom

Yes, .22BPCR is somewhat of a misnomer.  Black powder is not used but the rules are the same as those that govern big bore BPCR cartridge rifle silhouette, hence the BPCR designation.  We all shoot smokeless .22LR with the vast majority using match-grade ammo.  Course of fire are reduced-sized steel silhouettes at 50M, 100M, 150M & 200M.  The 50M chicken targets are shot offhand, the rest are generally shot prone although offhand is an option for those that don't care about the score. 

The sport is governed by the .22BPCR Association.  Go to (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links). for more details.

Wayne

GT wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2025 at 3:56pm:


Greg,

I hear you & that makes sense for you & your type of competition.  But note that BPCR silhouette not only requires accuracy but sufficient bullet strike energy to reliably knock over the steel targets.  I have watched others & experienced it myself of hitting a 200M ram dead center & it refused to fall over with a 40gr bullet which left the muzzle at just under 1100fps.

If hitting paper or a gong was the main goal than I agree with you that bullet impact energy is a less importance.  BTW, 1100fps muzzle velocity results in 49,500rpm in a 16-twist bore.  Using your 43,600rpm minimum indicates that a 18-twist bore would work, implying that the standard 16-twist is more than sufficient.  Of course this assumes we are both talking about 40gr bullets.

Wayne