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Old Soldier
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IMR 4227
Feb 13th, 2025 at 12:52am
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At Sportsman's Warehouse this week I found IMR 4227 for sale. $90 a pound!!!
  

"White man have very strong Medicine. Shoot today maybeso kill you tomorrow." Esa-Tai Commanche warrior
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #1 - Feb 13th, 2025 at 4:56pm
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My local store had it at $60 a pound last week.  I should go back and buy a couple pounds.  Almost every other powder is in the $40 ballpark.  I wonder why Hodgdon is bending us over on the IMR 4227…
  
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #2 - Feb 14th, 2025 at 8:12am
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GunBum wrote on Feb 13th, 2025 at 4:56pm:
...  I wonder why Hodgdon is bending us over on the IMR 4227… 


The only production line making gun cotton (for double based powders) is not (at this time) in production.  (Radford Army Ammunition Plant).  Don't know why; just what I've heard.
  

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GunBum
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #3 - Feb 14th, 2025 at 8:59am
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IMR 4227 is Manufactured by General Dynamics in Canada, and is a single base nitrocellulose powder.

Most of the US commercial production of powder isn’t at Radford, it’s at General Dynamic’s subsidiary St. Marks Powder in Florida.

Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester, Accurate, and RamShot are all owned by Hodgdon.  They all come from St. Marks in Florida, General Dynamics in Canada, Thales in Australia, Australia Munitions in Australia, or EURENCO/PB Clermont in Belgium.  Maybe some others I’m not remembering.  That’s sort of why IMR 4227 being 50% higher in price than other powders across all of Hodgdon’s brands that come from the same factory in Canada is weird.
  
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craigster
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #4 - Feb 14th, 2025 at 4:19pm
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GunBum wrote on Feb 13th, 2025 at 4:56pm:
My local store had it at $60 a pound last week.  I should go back and buy a couple pounds.  Almost every other powder is in the $40 ballpark.  I wonder why Hodgdon is bending us over on the IMR 4227… 


Hodgdon will bend us over every chance they get, as do lots of other mfgs. They are not in the powder making business. They are in the money making business.
  
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craigster
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #5 - Feb 14th, 2025 at 4:23pm
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Old Soldier wrote on Feb 13th, 2025 at 12:52am:
At Sportsman's Warehouse this week I found IMR 4227 for sale. $90 a pound!!!


One of the hazards of living in AK.
  
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #6 - Feb 14th, 2025 at 6:59pm
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There is a major war going on and a work wide shortage of gunpowder and a former us administration that allows the us to loose a substantial part of our armaments industry 
It’s called supply and demand
Can’t blame Hodgdon for being in the money making business
I don’t see anyone going to work every day for free why should they?
Germany announced a major ammunition shortage so they are scrambling too
Joe S
  
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #7 - Feb 14th, 2025 at 9:11pm
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Sorry, but I don’t buy the “major war” excuse.  If powder is in short supply, it all goes up in price, not just one or two types.  Supply and demand being what it is…
  
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #8 - Feb 14th, 2025 at 9:46pm
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"One of the hazards of living in AK."

True. We're used to it. Hogdon is not bending me over, it is our local retailers. If you can get it for $60 why do I have to pay $90? Cuz I can not drive to where you are, or have you buy some and ship it to me. It is called Alaskan pricing. But why is it $60 when 4 short years ago it was $30? I thought Uncle Joe said he fixed that inflation thing. Don't tell me he lied! Also don't tell me that the demand for 4227 in HIGH. Higher than what? 4350 or 4064 certainly not higher than CFE 223. It is curiouser and curiouser.
  

"White man have very strong Medicine. Shoot today maybeso kill you tomorrow." Esa-Tai Commanche warrior
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Joe_S
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2025 at 12:09am
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I will deviate from my usual habits and engage in a little speculation here, which I do not usually do but in this case I think my reasoning is logical. 
Alliant has cancelled all backorders. Why? Maybe it is because they are suddenly flooded with "large" orders that need to be given priority. Maybe large government orders. Why else would a major supplier cancel backorders?
Absent government intervention, the law of supply and demand usually prevails. Assume for the purposes of argument, that part of the aid that the US has promised to Ukraine is ammunition, large and small caliber, which requires gunpowder. Unless we have unused production capacity which can easily be switched on, filling those orders requires putting other orders on the back shelf. It is my belief that ammunition companies are not constantly making everything on their product list. They make one caliber for a while then make a run of something else. Why to you think 9mm  and .223 are so relatively available and inexpensive, but .380 auto and 8mm Mauser are so hard to find and expensive when you do find it?
I strongly suspect that even though 4227 is in high demand on this forum, it probably does not rank that high when compared to other powders. Therefore priority is being given to whatever is required for the military contracts and everything else is on the back burner, creating a supply problem for powders that we highly value, such as 4227.
Just my two cents, FWIW.
Joe S
  
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Joe_S
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2025 at 12:46am
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I forgot to mention:
In addition to Germany scrambling to build up its ammo supply ( it was announced two years ago that the German Army only had a two day supply of ammunition), as you have probably heard, other European nations have finally realized that  they all need to step up their defense spending, and most of them are doing it. This has all contributed to a worldwide shortage of nitrocellulose, a key ingredient in smokeless powder, as we all know. China and Taiwan are major players in this market, China is sending most of what they have to Russia, and a large part of what Taiwan produces is ending up in Russia, not directly but indirectly. If 4227 has any use in military ordnance,( I dont know if it does or not) dont expect large amounts to be set aside for a handful of old fogeys shooting single shot rifles. If it does not have any current military application, dont expect the powder companies to be making it in preference over military contracts and other demand. 
Prior to the war in Ukraine and Western Europe sudden interest in defense spending, we experienced several ammunition/primer shortages in the last 20 years. It is apparent that we have allowed our defense industry to atrophy to the point where we cannot even meet the demand of the reloaders in the country, let alone our own military and foreign aid commitments. As early as 2942, the United States  scaled down the production of small arms ammunition because it was realized that we were never going to use up what we had already produced, even though the end  of the war was not in sight.* It was not that long ago that the last of the WWII 30-06 ammo ran out.   Back than we had tremendous industrial capacity, not so now. 
Joe S

*Remington Arms, by Alden Hatch, P278-279
  
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Joe_S
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #11 - Feb 16th, 2025 at 12:15am
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Typo alert:
I was referring to 1942, not 2942. You figured that out on your own I hope
Don’t know how I missed that one 
Joe s
  
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Re: IMR 4227
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2025 at 4:52pm
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I don't know how many might have access to a Coastal Farm & Ranch store but, I just came from mine, here in So OR. For Vet's they offer a 10% discount on very thing.

They have a limited supply of many powders. For instance, no IMR powders that I could see. They also have a bunch of funky Winchester powders, I never heard of. BUT, they did have #9 for $40 and H110 for $42. I bought some Lil Gun, last Summer, for I think $34. With my 10% that was only $30.60.

So, if you have one of those stores, available to you, you might keep a eye on what they have. Prices are better than Sportsman Warehouse. 

  

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