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jmb1948
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Browning BCPR brass
Feb 10th, 2025 at 6:08pm
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New member to the forum here.  I recently bought an unfired 20 year old Browning 1885, and started resizing Starline 45-70 brass for it. 35 cases into it I tried to chamber one, to find that the diameter at the case web is larger than the mouth of the chamber of that rifle. It appears the I have the "older" chamber size. I can't imagine it's possible to size the case in the last 1/8" ahead of the rim -- solid brass there. I also can't believe it would be safe to remove brass from the outside of the case. Apart from dumb luck to get my hands on "old chamber" brass, has anyone found a solution to the problem?
  
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texasmac
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #1 - Feb 10th, 2025 at 7:25pm
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jmb1948 wrote on Feb 10th, 2025 at 6:08pm:
New member to the forum here.  I recently bought an unfired 20 year old Browning 1885, and started resizing Starline 45-70 brass for it. 35 cases into it I tried to chamber one, to find that the diameter at the case web is larger than the mouth of the chamber of that rifle. It appears the I have the "older" chamber size. I can't imagine it's possible to size the case in the last 1/8" ahead of the rim -- solid brass there. I also can't believe it would be safe to remove brass from the outside of the case. Apart from dumb luck to get my hands on "old chamber" brass, has anyone found a solution to the problem?


If it's a Browning BPCR here's no such thing as an older chamber.  Over the 3 yrs of manufacturing the diameter of the chamber just forward of the rim recess where the case web comes in contact is a nominal 0.508" +/- .003".  And I made chamber cast of a bunch of the rifles.

If it's not a BPCR model than the above may not apply, but one would think Miroku used the same reamers.

There are techniques that allow the resizing die to resize the web area.  One is to thin the top of the shell holder.  Another is to remove material from the bottom of the full-length resizing die.  There may be others.

Wayne
  
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CW
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #2 - Feb 10th, 2025 at 11:20pm
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If it were me, I would not remove metal from the shell holder. They are weak enough and you can't put metal back. What might be a better way is to just place the case on top of the shell holder, push the well lubed case into the FL sizing die. This has the option of getting it up in the FL die all the way if needed.

I should have said: Remove any expander stem first. 

Now with the brass in the FL die, knock the brass back out with a flat punch inserted through the top of the die. 

(I have done this.)
  
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38-72
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #3 - Feb 11th, 2025 at 12:38am
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I have an early Browning BPCR in 40-65.  And have re-sized about 1000 45-70 cases to 40-65.  Everyone of those resized case grew longer.  And with a little trimming to get them back to the correct length, they all easily chambered into my gun.   

Could it be that your re-sized 45-70 is a little long??
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #4 - Feb 11th, 2025 at 8:08am
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Is this a 40-65? Seems like that's been a problem for more than one person and occurs when you use Starline brass. The chamber I have in my daughter's 40-65 would not allow 40-65 Starline brass to chamber. There is a thick 1/8" band right in front of the rim that needs to be sized down. Another way to do it is to grind off the bottom of your die about an eighth of an inch so that the case goes up into the die farther. I ended up taking a 45-70 die and grinding a considerable amount off both the top and the bottom so that my brass would go up into it far enough to size down that little band.
  
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silver
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #5 - Feb 11th, 2025 at 8:49am
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Or u could just push the case in with out the shell holder 
And just use the ram. U will have to knock it out with a punch 
Anyway. As cw said
  
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jmb1948
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #6 - Feb 11th, 2025 at 5:52pm
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Thanks to all. Case length isn't an issue, as they have been trimmed to 2.10.  I'll try FL sizing with the shellholder removed -- and also make a cast of the chamber!
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #7 - Feb 11th, 2025 at 6:13pm
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In my Browning 40-65 I use the old stock Starline 40-65 brass that has the "thick" looking base at the bottom. It measures .4995. I don't have any Starline 45-70 to measure but I have R-P and it also measures .4995. I found some W-W and it measured .5045. What exactly is your 45-70 Starline measuring before and after forming to 40-65? Somewhere I came in possession of the RCBS reforming dies for 45-70 to 40-65 but I've never tried them. I suppose I could sacrifice one of the W-W cases as an experiment using the RCBS reforming dies.
  
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Oleblacksmith
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #8 - Feb 18th, 2025 at 7:35am
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I had a similar problem with a Lonestar rolling block that had been chambered for the Shiloh 40-65 but it wasn't indicated on the rifle. The RCBS 40-65 Shiloh dies have a slightly tighter base. At first I was having to run the cases thru a 40-60 die to get the base thin enough to chamber. After consulting with an old gunsmith and getting the correct dies everything is now good. 
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1Hawkeye
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #9 - Feb 18th, 2025 at 10:11am
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If you're using the rcbs cowboy dies  they don't don't size down the length of the case enough to fit a in spec chamber especially when using .45-70 brass to make the cases from.
  
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steveu
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #10 - Feb 19th, 2025 at 4:51pm
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I had a similar issue with a DZ chamber in my highwall with SL brass.  Long story short, I purchased an RCBS Forming Die that solved my case issues.  The RCBS die will size the base down tighter.  I use the Cowboy dies to load with.  Also, Redding makes a forming die, but what I have read it is the same dimension as their sizing die and probably will not solve your issue.
Cheers,
Steve
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #11 - Feb 19th, 2025 at 8:57pm
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This all made me curious so I found my RCBS 2 die set for forming 40-65 from 45-70 (which I had never used ) and dug out a 45-70 W-W case which measured .505 at the base and ran it through the dies. It gained .056 in length and the base was reduced to .502. I tried it in my Browning BPCR and the block closed easily on it.
  
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steveu
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #12 - Feb 21st, 2025 at 5:00pm
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oneatatime wrote on Feb 19th, 2025 at 8:57pm:
This all made me curious so I found my RCBS 2 die set for forming 40-65 from 45-70 (which I had never used ) and dug out a 45-70 W-W case which measured .505 at the base and ran it through the dies. It gained .056 in length and the base was reduced to .502. I tried it in my Browning BPCR and the block closed easily on it.

Best thing about that forming die lengthening the brass is now long enough for most of the various 40-65 chambers out there!
  
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walnuthill
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Re: Browning BCPR brass
Reply #13 - Apr 7th, 2025 at 8:41pm
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RCBS had special dies for Browning 40-65
  
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