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Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 (Read 1363 times)

John Schluter Junior Member Offline Posts: 72 Location: Fredericksburg, TX Joined: Mar 4^th, 2013	Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Feb 9^th, 2025 at 3:57pm	Print Post
	I'm trying to work up loads for my 1874 Sharps using 405gr gas check bullets and Accurate 5744 powder. Load Data has numerous loads but somehow I've ended up with an excess of 5744 so this has determined my choice of powder. What isn't in the data is the need for a taper or rolled crimp for these loads. Does 5744 need a crimp for clean burning and accuracy?


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jhm Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1678 Location: georgia Joined: Sep 4^th, 2011	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #1 - Feb 9^th, 2025 at 7:59pm	Print Post
	I have tried both but still could not get it to burn cleanly. I shoot primarily 4198 in most all my straight wall rounds. JMH


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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3067 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #2 - Feb 9^th, 2025 at 8:25pm	Print Post
	4198 has turned into unobtanium lately. It was the best powder I tried for fixed 30 Wesson ammo in my Ballard offhand match rifle but I haven’t found any in stock for at least a year. The only good news is that it gives me an excuse to not practice my awful hand shooting

	ASSRA # 11318 I haven’t lost all my marbles yet but there is definitely a hole in the bag somewhere.
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16732 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #3 - Feb 9^th, 2025 at 10:47pm	Print Post
	bpjack wrote on Feb 9^th, 2025 at 8:25pm: 4198 has turned into unobtanium lately. It was the best powder I tried for fixed 30 Wesson ammo in my Ballard offhand match rifle but I haven’t found any in stock for at least a year. The only good news is that it gives me an excuse to not practice my awful hand shooting 4198 has gone away in H4198, then IMR went away, and now it's H4198 available again. All owned by Hodgdon, so not sure why the flip flop? Last time I wanted more H4198 the Hodgdon rep told me they hadn't had any for two years, so I bought IMR. Then soon afterwards they showed H4198 in stock. Then it went back to IMR, and now none of it is around. Glad I bought 8 lbs. when I could get it at Powder Valley.

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steveu Junior Member Offline Posts: 84 Joined: Aug 21^st, 2023	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #4 - Feb 10^th, 2025 at 10:49am	Print Post
	John Schluter wrote on Feb 9^th, 2025 at 3:57pm: I'm trying to work up loads for my 1874 Sharps using 405gr gas check bullets and Accurate 5744 powder. Load Data has numerous loads but somehow I've ended up with an excess of 5744 so this has determined my choice of powder. What isn't in the data is the need for a taper or rolled crimp for these loads. Does 5744 need a crimp for clean burning and accuracy? I would try a light to medium roll crimp at the crimp groove. I loaded some smokeless for a friends trapdoor and found that a medium crimp worked best.


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Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 803 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #5 - Feb 10^th, 2025 at 1:00pm	Print Post
	LT-30 is right with H-4198 or as close as you'll find. there is also the Vet powder, I think V-130?

	May the Bullet Gods be with you.......
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3067 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #6 - Feb 10^th, 2025 at 1:22pm	Print Post
	from Hodgdon's chart.

	ASSRA # 11318 I haven’t lost all my marbles yet but there is definitely a hole in the bag somewhere.
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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 1999 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #7 - Feb 10^th, 2025 at 4:27pm	Print Post
	It is LT32, not LT30 that is closer to 4198 as shown in the chart posted by bpjack. LT 32 was developed specifically for the 6PPC cartridge, but with that burn rate should be useful for some cartridges of interest here. It does meter very well also.

	rkba2nd
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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 1999 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #8 - Feb 10^th, 2025 at 4:33pm	Print Post
	That is not to say that Lt30 might not be worth experimenting with, as it is very close to 5744, same ballpark.

	rkba2nd
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Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 803 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #9 - Feb 11^th, 2025 at 9:44am	Print Post
	Tomato..Tomata Whatever works. I've used both,but heres a blurb to read on.....Also have mixed 32 and 30 for A LT-31..... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

	May the Bullet Gods be with you.......
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3067 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #10 - Feb 11^th, 2025 at 12:30pm	Print Post
	I mixed 4227 and 4759 together once. Not on purpose though. Luckily you can remedy that with a pair of tweezers and patience. I don’t shoot fixed smokeless much except for my 30 Wesson, 22 Hornet and the occasional 38-55. For larger calibers I still have several pounds of 4759. There are not many retailers in the surrounding area that carry powder and their selections are slim. I might look for some N120 or similar. Maybe a road trip today since the shop is a bit chilly. Not as cold as some of you but up here 19 degrees is COLD Jack

	ASSRA # 11318 I haven’t lost all my marbles yet but there is definitely a hole in the bag somewhere.
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Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 803 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #11 - Feb 11^th, 2025 at 4:11pm	Print Post
	Well Jack...you can use a window screen to separate the two...then use for your Bench Match loads ...LOL -4 here this morning......

	May the Bullet Gods be with you.......
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3067 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #12 - Feb 11^th, 2025 at 4:15pm	Print Post
	Well my short road trip was a success. My local Cabelas had a pound of LT-32. Now I have something to experiment with starting with my 30 Wesson. I recently switched my 38-55 barrel to a different action so I will try it with some of this powder as well.

	ASSRA # 11318 I haven’t lost all my marbles yet but there is definitely a hole in the bag somewhere.
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GT Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2115 Location: Northeast Wyoming Joined: Jun 28^th, 2015	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #13 - Feb 12^th, 2025 at 10:07am	Print Post
	John, I shoot quite a bit of 5744 (on my seventh 8# in as many years) in similar rifles, I have never had good luck crimping lead bullets. What velocity are you trying to achive? What's your purpose with this rifle? Hunting? Target? Plinking? Most of my experience is with gong matches, a few paper matches, prairie dog and chuck hunting. I haven't got along with most loading manual's recommendations, they're usually 3 - 5 grains over where we get best performance. That being said, a lighter charge doesn't slow you down much and if you use magnum primers you get a more complete burn (not all magnum primers are the same either). I pay attention to my case neck tension and bullet engagement to the lands. Too much tension and the groups open, too little and the bullet doesn't stay put, that's a fine line. Most of my builds shoot best with a tiny amount of engagement, but a couple with heavier bullets seem to prefer a small jump (the 600g in the 44's & 45's and the 715g in the 50's). No fillers, no cards, good lube. My 2¢ Greg

	"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3067 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Crimp or not to crimp-5744 in 45-70 Reply #14 - Feb 18^th, 2025 at 5:28pm	Print Post
	My LT-32 experiment was a flop. I have been using 4198 successfully in my 30 Wesson fixed ammo for offhand use in a short barrelled Ballard. With no 4198 available right now, I decided to try some LT-32. I took bullets and my Lee hand press to the range this morning and tried a variety of powder charges with resulting velocities from 1200 to 1550 fps but velocities were all over the map and groups were terrible. Back to the drawing board on a replacement powder. Jack

	ASSRA # 11318 I haven’t lost all my marbles yet but there is definitely a hole in the bag somewhere.
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