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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds? (Read 1358 times)
waarp8nt
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Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Jan 12th, 2025 at 8:09am
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Are Magnum Rifle Primers needed when loading Blackpowder in Cartridges? I've read where a couple reputable writers recommend them. I don't have any, should I buy some? What are you fellows using?
  
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silver
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #1 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 8:59am
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Used to be the norm many years ago, I personal don’t know anyone
Using them any more. I use br-2 or federal match large riffle.
I know several people use large pistol. With the primers I’m using
I put a under size wad punch of coffee filter in in case before
The powder charge.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #2 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 9:15am
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When Spencer Wolf wrote his book on loading for the Trapdoor Springfield, he noted that the primers in the old days were oversized and had more priming compound in them than modern primers do.  He postulated that this excessive priming helped break up the compressed powder charge and improved ignition and burning in a way that maximized efficiency and minimized fouling for accurate repeat shots.

He said the only way to reproduce this effect with modern primers was to use the most powerful ones possible, ie, magnum rifle primers.

Of course, an alternative explanation could have been that the large amount of priming compound (and the large diameter firing pins in the rifles firing them) might have been because of the lack of reliability of the primers manufactured then.  Putting in excess compound and smacking it with the largest impact area possible might make an underloaded primer or one that was going bad from poor shelf life go off regardless.

Modern BPCR shooters noted the accuracy levels of some of the old-time loadings, and the fouling controls the old time shooters used, and also noted that when smokeless powder came along, the old black-powder primers were very unreliable igniters of the new propellant.  So modern smokeless powder primers, regardless of size, could be said to be overly powerful for black powder ignition, and might even push the thumb-seated bullets varying distances into the leade before the charge fully ignites, causing vertical stringing, flyers and other inaccuracies at distances.

So now the idea is to use mild primers, even attenuating the flash with a paper “primer wad” at the bottom of the case for the mildest ignition possible, and no push on the bullet until the entire charge is burning.  As far as fouling is concerned, proper lubricant and blow tubes, or wiping between shots is how that is handled now.

Of course, your own rifle is the final arbiter of these arguments.
  
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1Hawkeye
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #3 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 9:20am
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When l load black I've been using Winchester large pistol primers or once in a while Federal 210 large rifle primers. I mainly use the Winchesters because black powder is very easy to ignite and I want to save my 210s. Back in the day they used magnum primers because there was a theory that the bore stayed cleaner.
  
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JKR
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #4 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 9:20am
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I’d say that you’d need a chronograph to tell you what works best. 
In my opinion, primers are a load tweak. Pick one type and stick with it to find a good shooting load. Then start playing with different primers.
Depending on what you’re doing with the rifle, I doubt you’ll see much difference out to mid range. Long range is a whole nuther game.
JKR
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #5 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 9:37am
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When using Swiss or Old Eynsford powders I use pistol or large rifle match primers.

I still have some plain Goex Fg powder that I use for various purposes.  With that powder I've had good results with magnum primers, but that's the only time I use them.  That powder varies a lot in consistency though.  The previous lot worked best with pistol primers.

Chris.
  
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George Babits
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #6 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 10:00am
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Magnum rifle primers will give you a slightly lower velocity than standard rifle primers.   Don't ask me why, but that is what my chronograph has shown me many times.

George
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #7 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 10:31am
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I have used large pistol primers (mostly REMINGTON) in all my BP target rifles for approximately 30 years, with perfect satisfaction.  I have seen none of the “set-back” damage to breechblocks that some report, this in rifles of 1/2 dozen makes, and am satisfied with the performance of the rifles.  The “most used” of those rifles must have ca. 20,000 rounds thru them.

CHRIS
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #8 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 10:46am
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Magnum primers are not required and may actually be the worst choice.
Large pistol primers are very popular these days and for good reason.
Personally I’ve been using rp 2 1/5 or 9 1/2 or if the rifle prefers br2.
Fouling control and lube , and using a bullet length to match the barrel twist and velocity may just be more important than primer choice when searching out the best accuracy
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #9 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 11:19am
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I've only been loading BP for a couple years now, and have settled on Swiss 1 1/2 fg for my .45-70 and .40-65 cartridges. I tried both large rifle and large pistol, but never tried magnum primers as I had too many great shooters tell me not to bother. I finally settled on large pistol primers and I also use a wad punched from coffee filter media over the primer before charging the cases.
  

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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #10 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 3:04pm
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Remington 2 1/2 large pistol work well for me in my 40-50SS and 45-90.
  

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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #11 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 7:10pm
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I don’t have much experience with BP cartridges other than .45 Colt and .45-70.  In neither of them am I shooting for accuracy.  I do have a lot of experience with BP in accurate muzzleloaders.

In muzzleloaders, stronger primers are detrimental to accuracy.  Especially in inline ignition systems.  Stronger primers are often used to get more consistent ignition with BP substitutes.  A 209 shotgun primer is strong enough to move the projectile before it ignites the BP charge.  It’s not an imaginary problem, but rather a real life issue.  A musket cap or no 11 cap doesn’t move the projectile (or not as much), but potentially gives poor ignition on BP substitutes.  Consequently, I switched my breech plug on my inline hunting rifle to use musket caps instead of 209 primers and switched to FFg BP, and saw a decrease in group size.  It was a 3” gun at 100 yds before the change and does sub 2” now.  The deer probably never noticed the difference, but I sure did.  Oddly, traditional ignition systems like percussion locks don’t suffer from the same issue.  Maybe because having the fire out of line with the bore mitigates the problem.

I wonder if BP cartridges suffer from the same projectile lift with from stronger primers.
  
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art_ruggiero
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #12 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 7:43am
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many of the books and articles written in the early years of the B P sport are no longer valid in most areas  art
  
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steveu
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #13 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 12:27pm
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I use them (magnums) in my 40-65 and 45-70 with 70 grains of 1.5 Swiss.  I never noticed much of a difference using LRM, LR or LP primers in my 40-50SBN or 40-65 WCF when shot across a chronograph.  They would give me an ES of 10 or less for 10 shots. So I use LP's for those loads because I have alot of them.  Your rifle will let you know what it likes as will your method of fouling control.

Cheers,
Steve
  
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waarp8nt
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Re: Magnum Primers in Blackpowder Cartridge Rounds?
Reply #14 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 9:14am
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Gentlemen, Thank you for your thoughts, opinions and experiences. I have a few large pistol primers, so I'll try them first. If any issues are given, then I'll try the large rifle and/or the magnum large rifle primers. I do have a chronograph, sounds like it may come in handy for load development. 

  
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