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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard video (Read 1437 times)
Oldbee
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Ballard video
Jan 11th, 2025 at 6:08am
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A nice video on the Ballard I just found.



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TomKlinger
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #1 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 7:49am
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Thanks for posting!

Tom Klinger
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #2 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 11:52am
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Just some corrections to your video. Merwin & Bray Agents owned the Ballard patent from 1862 forward until July 23, 1873 when Brown Mfg. went bankrupt and the company and patent rights went to Charles Daly of Schoverling & Daly. Throughout the various previous makers Merwin & Bray owned the patent rights and each of those companies made the Ballard rifles for M&B.
Another note of interest is that Merwin had his office on Chamber St. right across the street from John Marlin's company where he produced JM Marlin firearms from 1870 to 1875 when Schoverling & Daly contracted John Marlin to build the Ballard rifles. Marlin was indeed already setup to make guns, and had been making copies of the little Colt derringers for 5 years when S&D offered him the job of building the Ballard rifles. As a former employee of colt John Marlin was well versed in firearms manufacture, but mostly as it related to handguns. But he certainly knew what it took to be successful as an arms maker.
The 2 line and 3 line designation has nothing to do with dating a Ballard. Both 2 line and 3 line rollstamps were used throughout production from 1875-1891. The difference is from 1875-1881 the rollstamp top line read, "JM Marlin" and after 1881 when the company incorporated the stamp was changed to, "Marlin Firearms Co." 
One thing that the 2 line vs. 3 line address does often indicate is forged vs. cast receivers. 2 line being forged, and 3 line being cast. But there are some exceptions to this rule also, as I own and have seen examples of forged actions with 3 line addresses, and cast actions with 2 line addresses. I would say that the exceptions are very small, but one needs to always drop the breech block out and look under the barrel at the receiver to see if it's solid (forged) or hollow (cast) to be positive.
Marlin also restarted serial numbers when the company name changed, so we find cases of early JM Marlin and later Marlin Firearms rifles with the same serial number, but different models and rollstamps.
As for the #3 and #3F Fine Gallery, the differences are the #3F has a pistol grip receiver and stock, and is equipped with a small Farrow style Swiss buttplate for offhand shooting. The 3F also usually came with a graduated peep tang sight, and a fixed globe front sight, where the plain #3 came with very basic Rocky Mountain rear, and blade front sights.
Both JP Lower and Carlos Gove were large Denver gun dealers, and both stamped guns sold through their shop.
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2025 at 12:21pm by marlinguy »  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #3 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 12:02pm
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One final mention. John Marlin didn't stop making Ballard rifles simply because of the demise of the American buffalo. He made far too many models that had nothing to do with buffalo to have the passing of the buffalo herds affect his production sales. John Marlin in 1881 had profited so greatly from the manufacture and sales of Ballard rifles that he ventured into lever action repeating rifles and brought out his first repeater, the Model 1881. It was a big success also, and in 1888 he brought out another Model 1888 chambered in short cartridges. About the same time he hired Louis L Hepburn after Remington went bankrupt to design and oversee his manufacturing. Hepburn brought out his design, the Model 1889 to replace the complicated Model 1888. The 1889 spurred the first of all later side eject Marlin models, and the company sales went so well that Marlin had 2 years of backorders quickly. At that time John Marlin stopped making the Ballard rifles for Schoverling and Daly to concentrate on his own rifle production, and S&D never turned over production to anyone else.
  

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Green_Frog
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #4 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 1:35pm
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Vall, 
I’ve read John Dutcher’s book cover to cover a couple of times, and a fine source of information it is, but just about every time you make a post here I learn something new (to me, at least) about Ballards.  I wish I could “sit at your feet” and learn from a master.  At my age though, I’d have to use a chair, and an adult beverage (or at least coffee) would probably be involved.  Thanks for a great post.
Your ‘Phibian Phriend
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 1:58pm
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Green_Frog wrote on Jan 11th, 2025 at 1:35pm:
Vall, 
I’ve read John Dutcher’s book cover to cover a couple of times, and a fine source of information it is, but just about every time you make a post here I learn something new (to me, at least) about Ballards.  I wish I could “sit at your feet” and learn from a master.  At my age though, I’d have to use a chair, and an adult beverage (or at least coffee) would probably be involved.  Thanks for a great post.
Your ‘Phibian Phriend


Thanks Charlie, but I'm certainly not the master. Much of what I've learned was gathered asking questions of the true master John Dutcher! And discussing with him and other knowledgeable Ballard guys. I have gained a bit of knowledge from owning a number of Ballards and comparing various things among the different eras, and models. I even got the chance once to surprise John at the old Denver show when I bought my first Rigby and it had a 3 line address, and double set triggers. John suggested it might be a "put together gun" because of the 3 line address and DST. So I took it apart and showed him the forged receiver, and the all matching numbers breech block. He said it was a special order DST, and one of those rarities that got the wrong rollstamp.
The real Master on the right, with some schmuck:
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 3:33pm
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Vall,
Great photo of you and Mr. Dutcher. I met and visited with him at a show a few years back, but didn’t know how to take selfies back then and there wasn’t anyone else present to take the photo! LoL 
I watched the video and noticed several of those things that were wrong— but I don’t remember half of what I learned over the years! Green frog and I would do well to sit at the same table sipping a little single malt scotch and relearning it all again!
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 4:18pm
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Crown-C wrote on Jan 11th, 2025 at 3:33pm:
Vall,
Great photo of you and Mr. Dutcher. I met and visited with him at a show a few years back, but didn’t know how to take selfies back then and there wasn’t anyone else present to take the photo! LoL 
I watched the video and noticed several of those things that were wrong— but I don’t remember half of what I learned over the years! Green frog and I would do well to sit at the same table sipping a little single malt scotch and relearning it all again!


John's driver and assistant Lorenzo took that picture. John asked me if he could get a picture of us together, and I told him that would be great, but only if Lorenzo also took one of us for me too. He is such a nice guy, and I feel lucky to have gotten to know him over the years.
  

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Re: Ballard video
Reply #8 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 12:51pm
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Val, thanks for your thorough response about the video, it did contain quite a few errors. I did get a chuckle when he said that one almost need a PhD to know everything about them. I learned to shoot on a No. 3 that was given to my father by a man who shot it competitively in the 1930’s and 1940’ s. That rifle has made me, at age 80, a lifetime Ballard fan. That rifle has a Winchester Model 52 barrel on it, installed in 1929 and it still shoots great.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #9 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 1:58pm
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.22Hepburn wrote on Jan 12th, 2025 at 12:51pm:
Val, thanks for your thorough response about the video, it did contain quite a few errors. I did get a chuckle when he said that one almost need a PhD to know everything about them. I learned to shoot on a No. 3 that was given to my father by a man who shot it competitively in the 1930’s and 1940’ s. That rifle has made me, at age 80, a lifetime Ballard fan. That rifle has a Winchester Model 52 barrel on it, installed in 1929 and it still shoots great.


Thanks!
One of the issues with many Ballard rifles is how popular they were to build custom rifles on. So a whole lot of Ballard actions got highly customized and novices aren't always sure if what they have is as it came from Marlin, or as it was changed years ago.
But I love them all, and especially the really well done custom rifles, even if not done by a famous name.
  

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Re: Ballard video
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 2:06pm
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Vall, how many high power varmink rifles you got built on Ballard actions?
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #11 - Jan 13th, 2025 at 2:09pm
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westerner wrote on Jan 13th, 2025 at 2:06pm:
Vall, how many high power varmink rifles you got built on Ballard actions?


Closest thing I have is one with a .22WCF Pope barrel Joe. That's about as close to a varmint Ballard as I got.
  

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Re: Ballard video
Reply #12 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 12:22am
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A fun link (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard video
Reply #13 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 11:43am
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Schutzenbob wrote on Jan 14th, 2025 at 12:22am:
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Just mailed off our table payment for this year's show. We'll have the same 4 tables our little group had last year at Greeley. Way in the back, directly across from John Dutcher's table.
  

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Re: Ballard video
Reply #14 - Jan 15th, 2025 at 10:05am
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Nice video, thank you for sharing.
  
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