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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How small is.0001”? (Read 2899 times)
boho
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How small is.0001”?
Jan 10th, 2025 at 3:53pm
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This will put it in perspective
  
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ssdave
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #1 - Jan 10th, 2025 at 4:00pm
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It's small enough measurement that if you don't specify the temperature the material is measured at, the measurement will not be consistent.   

Sometimes, just holding the item in your hands and warming it up slightly by touch will change the measurement in the 4th place.  And, the temperature of the measuring implement has to be within the range it is calibrated for.
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #2 - Jan 10th, 2025 at 6:14pm
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As another representative of the thickness of .0001", figure a swipe of a green or red magic marker on a sheet of glass. Black marker is about .0002, give or take a bit.
Sam
  
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Statesrights
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #3 - Jan 10th, 2025 at 6:50pm
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Maybe a tad bigger than a frog hair.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #4 - Jan 10th, 2025 at 6:59pm
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Real-life comparisons.

Paper is about 0.003" thick

Index card about twice that (used to be 0.007").

Cigarette paper about 0.001" - depending on the brand.  Machinists would know exactly as they'd use it to indicate how close an end-mill was to the work surface.
  

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SBoomer
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 7:10am
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Cat_Whisperer wrote on Jan 10th, 2025 at 6:59pm:
Real-life comparisons.

Paper is about 0.003" thick

Index card about twice that (used to be 0.007").

Cigarette paper about 0.001" - depending on the brand.  Machinists would know exactly as they'd use it to indicate how close an end-mill was to the work surface.

You must be about as old as I am to know that the cellophane wrapper on a pack of cigs is .001”. I set lots of die sections with that as the shim for clearance.
  
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George Babits
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 10:18am
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And, when comparing to hair you need to specify what color of hair!

George
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 11:10am
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And how much it changes with temperature depends on what the material is also.
  

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boho
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2025 at 2:11pm
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Thanks for all that info. All true.  I was just posting the illustration. It shows the outside ring as a cross section of a human hair .0035”. Compare that to the black dot representing.0001”. As small as it is, it’s a lot when having to hold a .0002” tol. It’s really a good illustration and amazing too. Go back and take a second look.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #9 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 1:36pm
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George Babits wrote on Jan 11th, 2025 at 10:18am:
And, when comparing to hair you need to specify what color of hair!

George


And from what part of the body it came from Roll Eyes
  

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westerner
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #10 - Jan 12th, 2025 at 2:28pm
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Statesrights wrote on Jan 10th, 2025 at 6:50pm:
Maybe a tad bigger than a frog hair.

  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Stank
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #11 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 3:07pm
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New guy here. 40 years a toolmaker. 
.0001 is pretty small. If you dropped it you would never find it. Just the heat from your hand on steel will change a part many tenths depending on the length of it. Unless you are working on multiple laminates that have to stack up to a certain height one tenth out of tolerance won’t hurt anything. What is sometimes tough is a tenth tolerance on a round part. Then you only have 50 millionths per side
  

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Stank
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #12 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 3:15pm
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Early in my career I hade 100 parts 12 inches long +\- .0002. I grind them up and they sat all nite. I checked one the next morning and it was about .0003 out of tolerance. Undersized. I was in a panic. These parts were $1000.00 each. I just scrapped $100,000.00. I went and got my Forman and just in the time of telling him what I did I checked that part again and it was .0005 oversize. Letting the parts set overnight they shrank. Hold them in my hand to show my foreman they grew. He told me not to worry about it.
  

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northwoodneil
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #13 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 5:06pm
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Ok, question? Will a pin a tenth smaller than the hole go in? Friction fit? Press fit. Just asking for a friend Roll Eyes. On my old lathe holding it within a tenth means losing 2 zeros.
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #14 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 6:30pm
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it may but most likely not, you only have a clearance of .00005 per side. Most likely if you are able to slip it in, it will not come back out. Any oil on either part will take up some of that clearance and reduce it to  0.  FYI I spent a huge part of my life in a precision tooling shop, the normal tolerance on the tooling I worked on was 
+/- .0002" and sometimes less. One job I had the parts were tolerance d to a stack dimension of .0005 over a stack of 10 parts. Each part was right to size but the oil on the parts from stoning off burrs made the stack oversized. That one took a bit to figure out. A good cleaning and they fell into size but am pretty sure I added a few gray hairs in the process. 
As a general rule, .0002 will give you a slight drag on a hole. If its a blind hole, air pressure will push the pin back out, a through hole, if you block the other side will give a nice "pop" when you  pull the pin out. 
Sam
  
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SBoomer
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #15 - Jan 14th, 2025 at 7:14pm
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I too, spent most of my career in the “tenths” arena. Now in retirement and with a smirk on my face, I cut firewood to 20” +/- 3” just to get even.
  
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bushka
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #16 - Jan 16th, 2025 at 1:36am
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.0001 is so small, a couple wipes with a scotchbrite pad will change it, depending how you are measuring.I used to grind mold cores for plastic injection, even if the tolerance was 0/plus .0005" it was an incredible pita to nail it,without coolant and 20 year old harig surface grinders etc. i would have to let the piece cool off with a wet towel over it,and then if it was still oversize by like .0003,i would spin the scotchbrite over it and send it out. you cannot get back in there and try to kiss .0003 off there,,when the whell finally sparks out ,you took off .0005" ....ooops.   and when the boss says you are making love to these parts and taking too long?? thats the difference between made in the usa or send it to china, i said send it to china,see what you get then. Now we are fixing the molds made overseas on the cheap,because they are no better and no one wants to pay for nice work .
« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2025 at 1:42am by bushka »  
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dave j
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #17 - Jan 16th, 2025 at 1:41am
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just for clarification, how fine would a frog hair split 4 ways and shaved on both ends be ? trichobatrachus robustus has hair show up when it breeds. 
i love this website !
  
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calledflyer
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #18 - Jan 16th, 2025 at 9:43am
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dave j wrote on Jan 16th, 2025 at 1:41am:
just for clarification, how fine would a frog hair split 4 ways and shaved on both ends be ? trichobatrachus robustus has hair show up when it breeds. 
i love this website !


Dave, got any video of that? Roll Eyes
  
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jhm
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #19 - Jan 16th, 2025 at 10:50am
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I worked in aircraft component manufacturing for many years.The last 16 was in the five decimal realm. My normal working tolerance for the work I did was 
eighty millionths to a tenth and twenty millionths. All air gaged or laser verification for quality. Just the heat from the human hand would change the dimensions. Jet engine and hydraulic components.


JMH
  
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #20 - Jan 16th, 2025 at 12:16pm
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SBoomer wrote on Jan 14th, 2025 at 7:14pm:
I too, spent most of my career in the “tenths” arena. Now in retirement and with a smirk on my face, I cut firewood to 20” +/- 3” just to get even.

I have a small shop out in my barn. A mill and a lathe. Nothing near as precision as I did in my Job but I just can’t get away from machining. I love it.  The tenth part of my career was kind of boring to me. I love throwing chips. Not grinding dust
  

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dave j
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #21 - Jan 16th, 2025 at 4:37pm
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i dont have a video of that yet but when i find out how you grow hair when you breed i am in  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #22 - Jan 19th, 2025 at 10:15am
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I think you’ll find most of your equipment gets smaller when it’s colder out. Empirical Observation #3

  
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DARK CLOUD
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #23 - yesterday at 7:27pm
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Temperature can make a big difference when talking millionths of an inch.
Steel and iron coefficient of expansion is approx. 5 to 6 millionths of an inch per inch, per degree Fahrenheit.
  
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burntwater
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #24 - yesterday at 8:16pm
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In the fine woodworking business .010" is called a whisker (red), .001" is called a whisper and a 
.0001" is called a concept.  Almost none of which are achievable 

Rick
  
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gunlaker
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Re: How small is.0001”?
Reply #25 - yesterday at 8:21pm
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It is interesting how metal expands when it heats.  One pretty dramatic example, to me anyway, is setting valve lash on an engine with solid lifters and how much they change from hot to cold.   

Chris.
  
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