Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New member with first single shot. (Read 3021 times)
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
New member with first single shot.
Dec 20th, 2024 at 9:45am
Print Post  
Hello all! New member here and long time collector with my first single shot. Smiley

Just picked this up at a local gun show down the road from me last Saturday. By the serial number I'm guessing late 1918 or early 1919. These went to the U.S. Army Ordinance department from what I can find. A training rifle. It's chambered in .22 short. Very good condition with a great shiny bore. Action is falling block and smooth as butter. Low wall, Heavy barrel. Factory installed Lyman rear peep sight. I'm still learning about it. Any more info would be greatly appreciated! Smiley

Thanks, Scott

Some quick cell pics until I can get better ones.

  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jimmy
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


Now available in Oklahoma.

Posts: 305
Location: Skiatook
Joined: May 12th, 2009
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #1 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 9:54am
Print Post  
Welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your first. The can get addictive. Nice Winder musket.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #2 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 10:02am
Print Post  
jimmy wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 9:54am:
Welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your first. The can get addictive. Nice Winder musket.

Thanks! I'm already addicted. Lol
  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rkba2nd
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1963
Location: earth
Joined: Feb 16th, 2009
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #3 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 12:02pm
Print Post  
Great start, Welcome aboard!!
  

rkba2nd
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4077
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #4 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 12:04pm
Print Post  
Nice Winder and an excellent choice for a first single shot.  My first one was a Winder Musket with a bent barrel and a strange stock.  It was built into my 22 offhand rifle and I wouldn’t take anything for it.

You might find that your rifle actually accepts 22 Long Rifle cartridges, many of them were chambered that way originally or later.  That specially designed receiver sight is unique to the 3rd Model Winder Musket and is hard to come by if missing.  Be glad you have that!  I hope you will enjoy yours as much as I’ve enjoyed mine.

Regards,
Froggie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
desertmoon
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67
Location: Arizona
Joined: Jul 8th, 2019
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #5 - Dec 20th, 2024 at 9:10pm
Print Post  
scottz63 wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 10:02am:
jimmy wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 9:54am:
Welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your first. The can get addictive. Nice Winder musket.

Thanks! I'm already addicted. Lol


ScottZ63, the firing pin removal and installation tips are posted to your PM AND to the thread on RFC.   Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #6 - Dec 21st, 2024 at 6:49am
Print Post  
rkba2nd wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 12:02pm:
Great start, Welcome aboard!!

Thanks! Glad to be here. Smiley


Green_Frog wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 12:04pm:
Nice Winder and an excellent choice for a first single shot.  My first one was a Winder Musket with a bent barrel and a strange stock.  It was built into my 22 offhand rifle and I wouldn’t take anything for it.

You might find that your rifle actually accepts 22 Long Rifle cartridges, many of them were chambered that way originally or later.  That specially designed receiver sight is unique to the 3rd Model Winder Musket and is hard to come by if missing.  Be glad you have that!  I hope you will enjoy yours as much as I’ve enjoyed mine.

Regards,
Froggie


Thank you! The sights are what got me to stop and look at the rifle in the first place. I then saw the US and ordinance bomb and had to have it. Lol!

I still have not tried to chamber a .22 LR as of yet. I will soon.
  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #7 - Dec 21st, 2024 at 6:55am
Print Post  
desertmoon wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 9:10pm:
scottz63 wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 10:02am:
jimmy wrote on Dec 20th, 2024 at 9:54am:
Welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your first. The can get addictive. Nice Winder musket.

Thanks! I'm already addicted. Lol


ScottZ63, the firing pin removal and installation tips are posted to your PM AND to the thread on RFC.   Smiley

Thank you, I saw that!  Smiley
  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #8 - Dec 21st, 2024 at 5:57pm
Print Post  
All bare nekid. Lol!

  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4077
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #9 - Dec 22nd, 2024 at 3:09pm
Print Post  
A little more about the 3rd Model Winder Musket… they were said to have been made from leftover high wall forgings by simply cutting the sidewalls down to low wall specs and adding an appropriately cut down breech block.  Everything else in the receiver was pure high wall including the larger diameter and threads of the barrel tenon. As mentioned previously, the receiver sight was unique, designed and provided by Lyman just for this variant.

After WW I, the market was turning down for single shots, so the brains at Winchester came up with a Junior Rifle Program.  There was a long history already of boys’ rifles, so the idea and the rifle were a big hit.  The problem of excess inventory was solved and the market for high end 22s was established, leading eventually to the Model 52.

I fell in love with the one I got when I first saw it in my grand uncle’s basement workshop.  I thought of it as a “real cowboy gun” because it opened with a lever.  OK,  I was about 7 or 8 at the time.   Roll Eyes  Then I grew up (sort of) and inherited the damaged old relic, and had it rebuilt when I met and started playing with the guys from ASSRA. The rest, as they say, is history.  Cool

The Frog with a Dream
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #10 - Dec 22nd, 2024 at 6:36pm
Print Post  
Green_Frog wrote on Dec 22nd, 2024 at 3:09pm:
A little more about the 3rd Model Winder Musket… they were said to have been made from leftover high wall forgings by simply cutting the sidewalls down to low wall specs and adding an appropriately cut down breech block.  Everything else in the receiver was pure high wall including the larger diameter and threads of the barrel tenon. As mentioned previously, the receiver sight was unique, designed and provided by Lyman just for this variant.

After WW I, the market was turning down for single shots, so the brains at Winchester came up with a Junior Rifle Program.  There was a long history already of boys’ rifles, so the idea and the rifle were a big hit.  The problem of excess inventory was solved and the market for high end 22s was established, leading eventually to the Model 52.

I fell in love with the one I got when I first saw it in my grand uncle’s basement workshop.  I thought of it as a “real cowboy gun” because it opened with a lever.  OK,  I was about 7 or 8 at the time.   Roll Eyes  Then I grew up (sort of) and inherited the damaged old relic, and had it rebuilt when I met and started playing with the guys from ASSRA. The rest, as they say, is history.  Cool

The Frog with a Dream

Nice! Thank you for more info. 

I have mine completely torn down for the moment. I always do to old guns of all sorts just in case there is some surprise hidden inside. Also, for a complete clean, lube, and oil. Good thing I did on this one. Found a broken firing pin!  Shocked

  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4077
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #11 - Dec 22nd, 2024 at 9:30pm
Print Post  
A common problem. A long time DIY repair is to carefully drill into the root of the firing pin to a depth of 1/8 inch, give or take and fit a piece of appropriate diameter drill rod into said hole, then adjust length and shape the tip as needed.  If I remember correctly, my Winder-based 22 is still using such a pin that my Uncle Raymond built up sometime in the early 1950s.  Smiley
Froggie

PS  Then again, I think some are available new, but you will still probably have to fit it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #12 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 7:32am
Print Post  
Green_Frog wrote on Dec 22nd, 2024 at 9:30pm:
A common problem. A long time DIY repair is to carefully drill into the root of the firing pin to a depth of 1/8 inch, give or take and fit a piece of appropriate diameter drill rod into said hole, then adjust length and shape the tip as needed.  If I remember correctly, my Winder-based 22 is still using such a pin that my Uncle Raymond built up sometime in the early 1950s.  Smiley
Froggie

PS  Then again, I think some are available new, but you will still probably have to fit it.

Thanks for the tip. I will do that to this broken one so I have a spare as I did already order a new one. It came in Saturday. A new lever pin is coming in today. The original was worn down a bit in  a couple of spots. Everything else looked good in there. Should have it all back together for a range day after Christmas.

  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
waterman
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2855
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #13 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 2:39pm
Print Post  
Welcome,

I'm a Winder Musket enthusiast.  Two things to think about.   

First, that Lyman sight is quite vulnerable should the musket be knocked over.  It was designed to approximate the sight picture for the US M-1917 Enfield.  But the Enfield sight has big protective ears. The Lyman does not.  Be careful where you lean the rifle.

Second, the barrel is marked "22 Short" but the chamber will take Longs or Long Rifles.  The twist is 1:20.  That's too slow for Standard Velocity Long Rifles.  Accuracy will be horrible.  But High Velocity Long Rifles work pretty well and the hyper-velocity light bullet stuff works even better.  Both of mine like CCI Stingers.

Shorts are hard to find these days, but the big boxes of cheap HV stuff are still around.  Enjoy!

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scottz63
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 29
Location: Mid Mo
Joined: Dec 20th, 2024
Re: New member with first single shot.
Reply #14 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 3:12pm
Print Post  
waterman wrote on Dec 23rd, 2024 at 2:39pm:
Welcome,

I'm a Winder Musket enthusiast.  Two things to think about.  

First, that Lyman sight is quite vulnerable should the musket be knocked over.  It was designed to approximate the sight picture for the US M-1917 Enfield.  But the Enfield sight has big protective ears. The Lyman does not.  Be careful where you lean the rifle.

Second, the barrel is marked "22 Short" but the chamber will take Longs or Long Rifles.  The twist is 1:20.  That's too slow for Standard Velocity Long Rifles.  Accuracy will be horrible.  But High Velocity Long Rifles work pretty well and the hyper-velocity light bullet stuff works even better.  Both of mine like CCI Stingers.

Shorts are hard to find these days, but the big boxes of cheap HV stuff are still around.  Enjoy!


Thanks for the info! I am also a Winder Musket enthusiast now. Lol!

I will be very careful with the Lyman peep sights. I have several rifles with unprotected Lyman sights and carefully take care of all. 

That's what I have been reading about them chambering .22 LR. That's a very cool thing. I have several boxes of CCI Velocitor 40gr at 1435fps and a few boxes of Aguila Supermaximum 30gr at 1700fps. Shocked Also, a bunch of misc. standard stuff to try out. I should be going to the range the day after Christmas if it does not rain.

Scott
  

14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint