Placing the wads in the mouth I acheived 1/2 MOA accuracy (0.452") with cast bullets with a demonstration of five five shot groups in a row shot outdoors with a 10 mph wind in a 45 minute period.

MY powder load only filled 1/4 of the case volume.
There was significantly more air space over the powder between the wad than Charlie Dell recommended - and I have been very comfortable shooting my rifles without a concern of ringing the barrel.

No one else has demonstrated this accuracy with their single shot rifles using plain base cast bullets to to my knowledge.

Motherhood statements that the powder column needs to be kept intact are nonsense.

Keeping the powder column intact with placing a wad on the column is the condition that results in the ringing of the barrel from creating conditions to develop a double pressure wave - but I am not an expert in how the combustion of smokeless powder occurs in a case.

any scientists out there?

I was discussing this subject with a friend of mine and an idea popped into my head which I would like to explore. My recollection of basic science is that if a theory is valid, a repetition of an experiment under identical circumstances should have the same result every time. If not, then you cannot draw any conclusions as to what the cause is. 
I have read and re-read Mr. Dell's chapter on this subject many times, and I am not in any way disparaging him or his work. My point is this: to conclude that if you put the wad on the powder you will eventually ring a chamber does NOT and cannot mean that putting a wad on the powder is the cause of  ringing  a barrel. If putting the wad on the powder causes chamber ringing then it would do so every time. There must be a certain combination of factors that results in a ringed chamber, otherwise it would happen every time. Off the top of my head, some likely suspects would be the burning rate of the power, case volume, and the weight of the wad. 
I do not want anyone, (especially me) to ring a barrel. However, to say that putting a wad on the powder will eventually ring a barrel is no more helpful that to say that if you do enough reloading you will eventually make a mistake that might result in personal injury or property damage. 
If there is a line of research that refutes this please bring it to my attention! Furthermore, I am absolutely NOT suggesting that anyone put a wad of any kind on the powder. What I am suggesting is that the basic rules of the scientific method do not support the conclusion that putting a wad on the powder will cause a ringed chamber. 

Just trying to further the discussion in a civil and respectful manner, so keep it clean!
Joe S

May I ask another Question?
If the wad is on the powder, how does the orientation of the barrel change the position of the powder? Theoretically, one should be able to tip the rifle to any angle you want and the powder should stay in the same position, correct?
Joe

To summarize (my thoughts): 
1. - There is a difference between old barrels, pre-WW II, and modern barrels, but both are susceptible to chamber-ringing.
2. - Floral foam is the least disruptive.
3. - Floral foam should be as thick as the bore diameter.
4. - Floral foam should stay at the top of the cartridge.
5. - Tap the cartridge three times on the bench before inserting into the chamber to assure the powder starts against the primer.

Thanks Dave,

I am not arguing with you or Mr. Dell, but only stating that unless chamber ringing occurs every time you put the wad on the powder, there must be some  other factor or condition, which is currently unknown,  that "causes" the chamber ringing.  I am also willing to concede that putting the wad on the powder is one of the conditions required to ring a chamber,( not sure that has been tested yet, however). So as of now, my conclusion is that we really dont know what causes chamber ringing except that putting the wad on the powder might be one of the conditions or factors required to ring a chamber. 
As I said up front, I am NOT a scientist, but I am hoping that someone with the time and  the ability to do barrel work will pick up where Charie Dell left off. 

There must be lots of "take off" barrels around that we could use for experiments. 

Joe S

I thought Mr. Dell also tested a brass barrel to determine if
"ringing" was actually occurring with every shot that had the powder held perpendicular to the bore.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

MikeT wrote on Nov 24^th, 2024 at 5:10pm:


Nope!  He used old style mild steel barrels and was able to ring those barrels at will with just a very few shots.  Either by holding the muzzle straight up (even with no wad) or horizontally with a tight wad.  Note the words “at will”.
Froggie