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NZVintagehunter
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44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Nov 18th, 2024 at 12:44pm
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I recently brought a Remington no1 marked 44S on the barrel.
It was expected to be a standard 44-77 2 1/4" but turns one the chamber is 2.1"
I'm using 43 Spanish brass dies 
Groove is .449"
It's shooting ok considering the first 4" of the bore is poor
But the remainder of fairly good
I would just like to pin down if there was a 44-77  with the same big rimmed case but 2.1" 

Cheers 


  
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marlinguy
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2024 at 2:08pm
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There was a .44-60 Sharps that used the same base case, but they're around 1.90" length. I don't know of any at 2.1" with that rim diameter.
  

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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2024 at 4:02pm
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The Remington 44s with the “S” designation were a special Remington target chambering that, IIRC, used a straight case.  I got the impression that it could be duplicated by tapering down a .45-90 or -100 case to .44 caliber.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2024 at 4:36pm
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Bent_Ramrod wrote on Nov 18th, 2024 at 4:02pm:
The Remington 44s with the “S” designation were a special Remington target chambering that, IIRC, used a straight case.  I got the impression that it could be duplicated by tapering down a .45-90 or -100 case to .44 caliber.


Not sure that holds true really. I have two Rolling Blocks marked "44S" that are both .44-77BN and one is an original Creedmoor, the other an extra heavy barreled set trigger buffalo rifle. Of course both are the bottleneck design cartridges.
  

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NZVintagehunter
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #4 - Nov 18th, 2024 at 10:05pm
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Yes this is a bottleneck and big rim exactly as you would expect a 44S marked 44-77 too be ... except it's a 2.1" chamber

I'm not the least bit worried 
And I do like a mystery
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #5 - Nov 19th, 2024 at 8:13am
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I am curious as to how long the neck is on the fired case in your 2.1 chamber.  The case length on the 44-60 is 1.875. 
I was told that you can make the 44-60 cases by fire-forming 45-70 that have been shortened and neck sized. So I did a little experiment, I neck sized a 45 case to the point it would just chamber, loaded it with bp and a gg bullet and did a test fire. Yep the case filled right out into the 44-77 chamber but it had a very short neck.  What really impressed me was that there was no leading in the throat from the test fire. 
For those wondering, here is a pic of a 45-70, 44-77 and the 44-60 formed from 45-70.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #6 - Nov 19th, 2024 at 10:52am
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nuclearcricket wrote on Nov 19th, 2024 at 8:13am:
I am curious as to how long the neck is on the fired case in your 2.1 chamber.  The case length on the 44-60 is 1.875. 
I was told that you can make the 44-60 cases by fire-forming 45-70 that have been shortened and neck sized. So I did a little experiment, I neck sized a 45 case to the point it would just chamber, loaded it with bp and a gg bullet and did a test fire. Yep the case filled right out into the 44-77 chamber but it had a very short neck.  What really impressed me was that there was no leading in the throat from the test fire. 
For those wondering, here is a pic of a 45-70, 44-77 and the 44-60 formed from 45-70.


Appears the rim is smaller on the .44-60 made from .45-70 Sam? Does it extract fine with the extractor on a .44-60 rifle?
  

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NZVintagehunter
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #7 - Nov 19th, 2024 at 11:07am
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All case dimensions are identical in my 44-77 2.1" as 44-77 2 1/4" except neck is shorter

Rim, base, body and shoulder are all identical. 
Only the neck is shorter.

A 45-70 based case could be made too work at a pinch but the extractor would likely slip past the rim and the base wouldn't fill out to the chamber properly in the web area
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #8 - Nov 19th, 2024 at 3:52pm
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yes the rim on the cases shown are smaller and thinner  on the 45 cases than on the 44 case. I didn't have any issues extracting the case from my 44 chamber. My starline 45-70 rim measures about .600 in diameter, my 44-77 cases measure .625, so about .012 difference per side. Once your cases are fire formed you can use the shoulder to head space off of and the rim thickness will not make a difference.  That set up works for rimless cases why should this be any difference. 
Yes the 45 case is a bit smaller at the base than the 44 case and will swell up to make up the difference upon firing. If using new brass it shouldn't be a problem. The  case I used was a nickle Remington.  I have not tried it with starline brass but it wouldn't hurt at all to anneal them and perhaps anneal a little farther down the case than usual. I built bushing dies for my 44  and so far they seem to work well. Since each round will only be fired in one rifle, neck sizing should work for a very long time and hopefully make the cases last a bit longer as well.
  
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Re: 44-77 2.1" case not 2.25"
Reply #9 - Nov 19th, 2024 at 8:27pm
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My 44S is 2.15”
  

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