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bpjack
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School me - 40-65 dies
Nov 9th, 2024 at 1:15pm
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I finally got around to fitting an eBay 40-65 high wall threaded barrel to an action.  It appears to be new.  I did a chamber cast and measured the bore (.408).  The shank was about .025 long.    By the time I cut it to the proper length the rim recess was too shallow.   I then cut the rim recess a bit (but not enough yet). I took a case and cut the rim thinner from in front of the rim to see how much deeper the rim recess needs to be.  I was able to close the block on this modified case BUT only if I hammered it in to the chamber. The web is too thick. I did fire a primer and the strike is centered but unless I want to shave some thickness off of every case I use, I think a quick few turns with a reamer is in order. I have a member loaning me a reamer so that issue should be solved.  But now I need to dig up a set of 40-65 dies.  I borrowed a Redding set and it sizes the web just in front of the rim to .501.  My chamber cast measures .498 at that point.  I see there are die sets marked Shiloh. I have read about old chambers that are larger but I am trying to figure out what to buy.  I see one vendor has RCBS dies in stock for Shiloh.  How do the Redding and RCBS dies differ?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks   
Jack
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #1 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 1:59pm
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With my .40-65 Shiloh Sharps and my .40-65 CPA Rifle with a Douglas barrel I sized the cases only once with the Shiloh RCBS  or Lyman dies.

To fully reduce the case webs I dropped the dies to drop completely down to the case holder.

After that I only used fire formed cases after that first fire firing and only used them in the rifle I blew them out in.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #2 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 2:11pm
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Are you using Starline brass? If so, there is a band on them right above the rim. If you have a 45-70 or 45-90 sizing die, see if one of them will size them down. If neither one works, I have the fix for you.
  
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bpjack
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #3 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 2:32pm
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I am using old stock fired R-P and Winchester brass.  I have already done what Dave suggested and got the one case with a thin rim down to .498 but it still sticks.  I will address that issue after I get the reamer next week.  I will look for the RCBS dies I guess.  Lyman shows their classic dies in stock.  Are the the same as the RCBS?  I see RCBS also has their Cowboy dies.  I have those in 32-40 and 38-55 and work well.
  

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gunlaker
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #4 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 3:04pm
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Jack, I have 2 sets of RCBS dies for 40-65.  The "Cowboy" legacy ones and the Shiloh marked ones.  The Shiloh ones definitely squeeze it about 0.001 smaller at the web.  Without that it's sticky in my Shiloh's chamber.  I can make some measurements in a sec...
  
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gunlaker
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #5 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 3:15pm
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Ok Jack, I just sized a piece of scrap WW 45-70 brass in my Shiloh 40-65 die.  It came out at 0.500"

Chris.
  
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25cal
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #6 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 3:56pm
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Jack- I went through trying to figure out 40-65 chambers, dies and reamers a few years ago. I liked what I read about the 40-65 Shiloh chamber, so I bought a set of RCBS dies for it. Then came the fun of finding the correct reamer to match it. Finally got PTG to find and send me a copy of their chamber drawing and I had them make me a reamer. If you want to PM me an email for you, I will forward their print.
  
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bpjack
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 4:17pm
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I guess I will wait until next week after I get the loaner reamer.  That might make this part of the discussion a mute point

Thanks
  

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gunlaker
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #8 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 4:25pm
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The Shiloh 40-65 chamber is very good.  If it will clean up your existing chamber I'd definitely recommend it Jack.  My Shiloh 1:16 twist 40-65 is incredibly accurate.  I've talked to some of our local prone TR shooters that say my black powder targets at 300 would be reasonably competitive in their matches.

I think Shiloh gets their reamers from Pacific Tool & Gauge but I'm not 100% sure.

Chris.
  
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bpjack
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #9 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 4:30pm
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Thanks Chris.  Not sure what reamer is coming.  I will check back late next week.
  

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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #10 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 5:28pm
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Jack,  was kind of in the same boat as you when I had my 40-65   built. I have no idea what reamer he used. I do know that my CH dies woudl not size the cases small enough to fit into the chamber. Somewhere along the line I picked up a CH sizer die that someone had shortened up quite a bit. Once I ran the cases through that die they fit just fine. After shooting I just use the regular sizing die and that seems to work ok. I did go and check my fire formed cases and at the rim they meausre .497. 
I don't know if my die would fix your problem or not.
Sam
  
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bpjack
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #11 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 6:21pm
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Thanks,

I will keep that in mind.
  

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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #12 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 10:46am
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Jack,
I had the same issue when I tried to use some fired Starline 45-70 brass.  The problem went away when I finally got some new brass.  I did call RCBS a year ago to find out what the difference was in the Shiloh dies and the Cowboy dies.  The tech told me that the Shiloh were a little tighter and had a smaller expander plug.  I use the cowboy dies and my chamber is a DZ arms 40-65.   

Cheers,
Steve
  
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bpjack
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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #13 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 11:51am
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Thanks Steve. 
I hope to be able to load BP ammo like I do in my 45-90 and 38-55 where I do not have to size brass at all and have a bullet that is a slip fit in the case.  Of course I won’t be able to test this until I get the chamber reamed and fireform some brass.  Time will tell but I am not the patient type Smiley.  The reamer was going to he shipped today but the post office is closed.  As a veteran I am ok with that.
  

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Re: School me - 40-65 dies
Reply #14 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 12:44pm
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Jack with the Shiloh chamber, a .409" bullet is a perfect slip fit.  At least in the two I have.  In the first one I bought the bullets fit so perfectly that when I pull them out you can hear a pop sound as the air is sucked into the case.  That's with Remington 45-70 brass sized down.   

Chris.
  
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