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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard (Read 2012 times)
cdnrokon
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Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Nov 8th, 2024 at 1:29pm
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I see next week this is coming up for auction 
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #1 - Nov 8th, 2024 at 2:14pm
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What a rifle!
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #2 - Nov 8th, 2024 at 3:39pm
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Is there something missing, or do I have to find this auction to see it?

Never mind, I found it!

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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #3 - Nov 8th, 2024 at 4:50pm
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I caught the fact that lot #109 Pope Rifle #526 and that lot # 139 Five Wooden Schuetzen Rods has what may be it's ramrod. It looks like the descriptions were updated.
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #4 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 4:16pm
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What a nifty rifle and piece of history. The engraving is over the top, even for a Ballard. There are more historically important rifles  being offered.
  

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cdnrokon
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #5 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 5:37pm
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If you browse through the auction you will see a bunch of nice single shots  , loading ,reloading tools

Icollector is a good site … just type in what you are looking for in the search bar and happy shopping
« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2024 at 7:42pm by cdnrokon »  
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sharps4590
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #6 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 7:17pm
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I have to plead ignorance.  What is the device in the last picture?

And, thanks for the link, I wouldn't have found it.
  
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45govt
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 8:21pm
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sharps4590 wrote on Nov 9th, 2024 at 7:17pm:
I have to plead ignorance.  What is the device in the last picture?

And, thanks for the link, I wouldn't have found it.


Hello
That is a lube pump for lubricating the bullet before you breach seat or muzzle load it.
  

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Myers
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #8 - Nov 10th, 2024 at 9:09am
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Any idea who's collection those historical schuetzens are coming from?
  
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #9 - Nov 10th, 2024 at 12:51pm
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I believe it tells you in the description. Livengood?
  
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bnice
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #10 - Nov 10th, 2024 at 2:40pm
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Really nice group of items up for auction
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #11 - Nov 12th, 2024 at 7:22pm
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Quite a few items that should stay with certain guns, but are being sold separate. Which tells me the previous owner isn't around to tell them what goes with what now.
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #12 - Nov 13th, 2024 at 3:45pm
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This is an ongoing problem, even with the current owner being available. unless they are the original owner. Once separated, it is difficult to assemble them together again, especially in some auction settings.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #13 - Nov 13th, 2024 at 6:25pm
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I'd think if the current owner was still alive and had assembled or bought these rifles with certain kits, or accessories with them he would make certain they didn't get separated by the auction house.
I know I have various false muzzles, molds, lube pumps, etc. that are tagged to ensure they have a serial number and info describing what gun they go with. Only one that doesn't is my multi barrel Pope Ballard that is a cased set and all the tools are in the case with it.
  

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cdnrokon
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #14 - Nov 15th, 2024 at 11:21am
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good luck at todays auction
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #15 - Nov 15th, 2024 at 12:56pm
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I've already been outbid on a couple things, but still ahead on a couple others. Guess we'll see how the dust settles.
Just looked again and I missed all 4 items. 

Only bargain I saw go was the Deluxe Whitney-Laidley Rolling Block that sold for a measly $1400. That was probably worth another $1000 more.
« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2024 at 1:01pm by marlinguy »  

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rkba2nd
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #16 - Nov 15th, 2024 at 1:40pm
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My point being, that once the tools are separated, for example a Schoyen mold and grease pump made for that barrel, not all owners would be able to tell the difference, or assume that because the tools came with the rifle they belong with that rifle. Truth be known, only the original owner would know for sure. If one were  in doubt, with a chamber cast, to include the throat and a short length of barrel, and ability to accurately measure a 7 groove barrel, one could be relatively sure of a match. The question being, has that been done to that rifle. If one knows of all the previous owners and their knowledge concerned, that too would indicate that the correct tools are with the rifle. As would seem to be the case with your Pope marlinguy. No pun intended.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #17 - Nov 15th, 2024 at 2:42pm
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Sometimes you just have to look at a rifle and whatever comes with it and decide if they're right for the rifle. I'd assume in some cases that's not easy; say with a Schoyen rifle that came with a Pope mold for the specific caliber. Could be someone ordered a Pope mold for it, but more likely they'd have bought a Schoyen mold. But if the owner bought a Pope mold later does it mean it shouldn't stay with the rifle? 
When it comes to shooting kits I'd think if everything in a kit matches up with, or can be used with a certain rifle in the collection then it ought to be paired with it when sold. 
I would hope that some things like the group of Pope false muzzles and starters were test fitted to Pope barrels to see if any fit them? Or at least check serial numbers on those to see if they match a barrel?
And the group of ramrods sold together when there are numerous false muzzle Pope, Schoyen, etc. rifles is sad, as I'd bet most if not all went with the rifles at auction. But they got over $500 for the group, and it's about the money more than anything.
This breaking down parts to maximize selling prices might be fine for the heirs, but it sure doesn't do anything to retain the completeness of a gun and tools.
  

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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #18 - Nov 15th, 2024 at 2:50pm
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$6500 for Emils Ballard . I thought it would sell alot higher.
  
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #19 - Nov 16th, 2024 at 10:56am
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Not bad for a hundred plus year old parts gun.  Lips Sealed
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #20 - Nov 16th, 2024 at 11:02am
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Myers wrote on Nov 15th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
$6500 for Emils Ballard . I thought it would sell alot higher.


I also thought it would have gone higher. And Peterson's personal Ballard went $4000 which I was surprised it didn't go higher.
The lot of assorted ramrods went pretty crazy at around $550 if I recall? 
Some of the smaller stuff went crazy high. The two cased sight sets that were both incomplete went stupid high, especially with premium added! I've seen complete sets sell for less.
  

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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #21 - Nov 16th, 2024 at 4:21pm
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Anyone know what the metal shroud around the muzzle of lot 98 Stillmans 78 sharps is?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #22 - Nov 16th, 2024 at 6:08pm
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bnice wrote on Nov 16th, 2024 at 4:21pm:
Anyone know what the metal shroud around the muzzle of lot 98 Stillmans 78 sharps is?


I think it states it's a false muzzle barrel, so maybe this is some odd sort of guide tube for the false muzzle, or starter? I don't see the false muzzle in place, but see it and the starter in the shooting kit. Just guessing the tube guides the false muzzle until the 4 prongs get aligned in their holes?
  

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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #23 - Nov 16th, 2024 at 6:22pm
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Maybe but seems like a pretty crude fit.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Emil Berg's Hartford Pope No. 383 Marlin-Ballard
Reply #24 - Nov 17th, 2024 at 11:31am
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bnice wrote on Nov 16th, 2024 at 6:22pm:
Maybe but seems like a pretty crude fit.


Since it doesn't align the false with the bore it wouldn't need to be a precise fit. The 4 pins align the false muzzle perfectly.
But I may be wrong about it's function? Just guessing what purpose it serves.
  

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