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Help identify this caliber (Read 1663 times)

Judge 1879 Participating Member Offline Posts: 45 Location: Arizona Joined: Jun 27^th, 2024	Help identify this caliber Aug 15^th, 2024 at 8:20am	Print Post
	Hello all, I recently purchased a W. Wurfflein and have made a chamber cast, however I'm not really sure if I'm reading the measurements properly. Starting from the rim it measures. 460, the base 3.78, the neck is .350, and the case length seems to be 1.30. The muzzle diameter is .300, while the end of the mold prior to the rifling is .324, the total length of the casting before the rifling is 1.82 including the rim. 1.74 not included the rim.
	« Last Edit: Aug 17^th, 2024 at 10:40am by Judge 1879 »

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yamoon Oldtimer Offline NRA Life, ASSRA , GGCA, MCA Posts: 880 Location: Junction City Kansas Joined: Feb 11^th, 2012	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #1 - Aug 15^th, 2024 at 12:43pm	Print Post
	May be 8.15x46r, a very common European target round. Mike


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7268 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #2 - Aug 15^th, 2024 at 12:59pm	Print Post
	Is the base diameter actually .378? I have no idea of what the caliber might have been called but, it sounds like it will be easy to make cases for it, with either 357 mag or 357 max. The rim thickness may be to great though w/o a shim. You didn't say if it has rifling. If so, is the bore .300 and what is the groove diameter? Also, the shape of the chamber sounds like it could be for a "stop ring" bullet. Could we get a good picture of the chamber cast?

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rgchristensen Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1089 Joined: Jan 2^nd, 2014	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #3 - Aug 15^th, 2024 at 2:43pm	Print Post
	Sharpe’s “Rifle in America” lists the models of Wurfflein rifles, and the cartridges for which they were chambered. Barnes’ “Cartridges of the World”, gives descriptions of most odd cartridges. CHRIS


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Judge 1879 Participating Member Offline Posts: 45 Location: Arizona Joined: Jun 27^th, 2024	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #4 - Aug 15^th, 2024 at 7:51pm	Print Post
	I am having a difficult time uploading pictures, I'll try again. And yes it does have rifling, I will measure the grove depth. It is such a beautiful rile and the barrel and bore are near perfect. Again I'll attempt to upload pictures.


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Judge 1879 Participating Member Offline Posts: 45 Location: Arizona Joined: Jun 27^th, 2024	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #5 - Aug 15^th, 2024 at 9:18pm	Print Post
	Have recast the chamber( sulpher is sooo darn fragile). Remeasured and yep the measurements are the same. I tried to get the rifle groove depth and came up with .004, .296/.300. I originally thought it was a bottleneck but then realized that I was looking at the place the actual bullet is in the chamber. I still can't upload images ( says they are too large) any idea on how to fix that? Thanks for all your help.
	« Last Edit: Aug 15^th, 2024 at 10:52pm by Judge 1879 »

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25cal Participating Member Offline Posts: 41 Joined: Nov 27^th, 2009	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #6 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:24pm	Print Post
	Hard to tell from the dimensions given, but might possibly be one of the Wesson 30 calibers, 30-30 or if it's a bottle neck 30-40. They are both listed as slightly shorter OAL, but they were around in the same era as the rifle originally. According to Donnelly they can be formed from 357 Max. brass.


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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 2051 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #7 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:32pm	Print Post
	Judge, Your computer photo gallery should have a menu at the top that reads "properties." Click on that and select "resize and save."


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7268 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #8 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 3:04am	Print Post
	Can you give us the A, B, C lengths?

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Judge 1879 Participating Member Offline Posts: 45 Location: Arizona Joined: Jun 27^th, 2024	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #9 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 9:43am	Print Post
	So it looks like dimension "A" is 1.30, if "C" is overall leanththen that is 1.82, if it's the shoulder to the top it is .52, and "B" is .70 Now if we are also looking at the throat of the cartridge it measures. 354 and the " bullet" is 329


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7268 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #10 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 12:05pm	Print Post
	That doesn't add up. 1.3 + .700 = 2.0, longer than what you say is the overall length of 1.82. It looks kind of like it could be a 30/30 Wesson. The 1.3 would be about right but, the "B" dimension would need to be nearer .32 - .36. To me, it looks like A + B would = case length and C minus B would = the throat.

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Dellet Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1090 Joined: May 19^th, 2017	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #11 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 1:55pm	Print Post
	Maybe loosely based on a 30-30 Wesson but the bore diameter is too small .296/.300” and the neck diameter to large at .350”. The brass would have been extremely thick, .025” or so to seat a .300” bullet. A better casting might help, and include at least 1/2” of rifling.


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Judge 1879 Participating Member Offline Posts: 45 Location: Arizona Joined: Jun 27^th, 2024	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #12 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 7:19pm	Print Post
	I will do another casting. Honestly this is very confusing. I may have to take it to a gunsmith. But finding one who is familiar with vintage arms


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Dellet Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1090 Joined: May 19^th, 2017	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #13 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 11:16pm	Print Post
	Judge 1879 wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 7:19pm: I will do another casting. Honestly this is very confusing. I may have to take it to a gunsmith. But finding one who is familiar with vintage arms I think with good measurements it’s possible to ID. There were very few cartridges with a .300” groove. Hard part is bore sizes weren’t exactly reliable. More important is the body taper, shoulder if there’s is one and neck diameters. Below is a photo of a 30-30 Wesson and a 32-30 Remington.


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Judge 1879 Participating Member Offline Posts: 45 Location: Arizona Joined: Jun 27^th, 2024	Re: Help identify this caliber Reply #14 - Sep 18^th, 2024 at 7:57am	Print Post
	After much study and the cartridges of the world book I believe it is a 30-30 Wesson. and of course the 357 Max cases are nowhere to be found. So for the time being I guess the rifle sits quietly as it has for many many years.Dellet wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 11:16pm: Judge 1879 wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 7:19pm: I will do another casting. Honestly this is very confusing. I may have to take it to a gunsmith. But finding one who is familiar with vintage arms I think with good measurements it’s possible to ID. There were very few cartridges with a .300” groove. Hard part is bore sizes weren’t exactly reliable. More important is the body taper, shoulder if there’s is one and neck diameters. Below is a photo of a 30-30 Wesson and a 32-30 Remington.


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