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NDenier
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Harrells vs 4227 ?
Jun 20th, 2024 at 4:16pm
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I'm looking at getting a Harrells powder thrower and was wondering what one would be better measuring 4227 or is there a better thrower out there ? My load is 13.1 grains are they capable to get it close as possible and load at the bench instead of measuring all my load at home on a scale
  
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John Rigby
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #1 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 8:56am
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Mine throw 4227 very accurately.
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #2 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 9:29am
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Harrells produces one of the most accurate measures made.
Which model do you wish to order?
The Schuetzen/pistol model is even more accurate measuring small loads.

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Premod70
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #3 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 9:35am
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I have the Schuetzen version and after all the years of using a RCBS Uniflow I’m too heavy handed the use the Harrell version. If interested in a slightly used version mine can be bought for $150 shipped, pm if interested.

Powder measure is sold per PM.
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2024 at 4:01pm by Premod70 »  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #4 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 9:51am
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I have won championships using a Lyman 55 but it is not accurate unless you use light steady control when you operate it and never let the hopper get less than half full.
And NEVER ever use the knocker.

Every powder measure requires you to learn how to best manipulate it.

The Harrell measures allow you to be able to accurately stratify even finer loads than most other powder measures.

Use your Harrel measure gently.
  
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beltfed
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #5 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 9:56am
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I added a powder reservoir baffle to my Lyman 55
to improve the consistency.
Also, my Redding BR measure, also with baffle,  works accurately with 4227
beltfed/arnie
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #6 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 11:00am
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  After buying a Harrell's Schuetzen measure I'll never use anything else. Most accurate and consistent measure I've ever owned.
  

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Statesrights
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #7 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 11:40am
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Premod70 has offered a deal. Take him up on his offer.
  
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RSW
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #8 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 12:22pm
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Having used both the Harrells SCHUETZEN and BENCH REST measures for some years, I find the BR throws more accurate charges than the Schuetzen with 4227. The Schuetzen measure cuts more 4227 powder kernels than the BR. The Schetzen is great for flake and ball powders such as Win 296 & Accurate No.9 but the BR is better for short stick powders such as 4227 IMO. NOW . . . if I were only going to use one measure, I'd take the Schuetzen, hands-down.
More comments; I've used a number of measures over the years. There are a lot of good ones available but the Harrells has given the best results for me. As stated earlier, the Harrells takes a light hand to get the most consistent powder charges.
  

Randy W
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #9 - Jun 21st, 2024 at 5:21pm
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Harrels best measure I have ever used. Like any measure it’s possible to throw light charges with inconsistent technique. Recommend throwing a hundred of your 4227 loads in a scale pan weigh & keep track of light drops. Will find out quickly if you can throw consistent. Key is a slight pause upstroke to down stroke  allowing the rotor to fill. Too quick makes for short drops.

Long as I have been using a Harrell’s, late 1990’s, still run 10 over the scale starting. All drop fine omit the check weighing step. Like RSW said light hand is best, I flick the handle with index finger.

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Bob
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #10 - yesterday at 5:28am
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I purchased the black powder version and it works well with 4227 and AA#9.  I was using a Lyman 55.
  
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #11 - yesterday at 7:19am
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Jump on the used Harrells you won’t be disappointed.

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bullshop
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #12 - yesterday at 9:35am
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I have read that the B&M powder measured is very consistent.
  
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bohemianway
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #13 - yesterday at 9:41am
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I have to agree with the general consensus. Since I bought the Harrel's Schuetzen years ago the rest of my measures sit on the shelf. And, the light hand and pause at the top is key.
Charles
  
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #14 - yesterday at 11:06am
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Buy a Harrels (I have 2). Get an accurate rifle, a steady front rest. Cast perfect bullets, use the best proven lube. Practice consistently and constantly until you can shoot 1” 10 shot groups at 200 yds. Then you will not have an excuse when you go to a match and manage to only shoot in the low 240s. Can’t blame the equipment!  Cry all the way home:(

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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #15 - yesterday at 12:50pm
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I know this is an old thread, but I recently bought a Harrell's Schuetzen measure.  I'd been recently using one of their larger measures.  The Schuetzen one is so consistent that it's quite a bit better than my RCBS ChargeLink dispenser.  When I got the scale I did a large number of powder dumps with IMR-4227 to build some calibration tables.  I was using the scale to check the weights.  After a while the numbers started getting a little inconsistent. I recalibrated the scale and the numbers were perfect again.  I dropped 50 charges and only one charge was 0.2gr under.  The rest were within 0.1gr total variance.  At least if you believe my crappy RCBS scale Smiley.
  
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #16 - yesterday at 1:16pm
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Ball powders are a "piece of cake" with most measures. As has been said, many times, it's your consistency that matters. 

4227, is not very hard to throw. It was the first powder I used and because no one had anything else in stock, I had to buy a RCBS, Little Dandy, with a rotor that threw 13.+ gr. I had a hard time getting the scale to very with it. In part because that little rotor thimble, didn't let you very your technique to much Smiley

I have collected powder measures, ever since and I try each one out by setting them to about 15.0 gr and throw a few individual charges and then throwing multiple 10's and weighing them, to average how well it throws. 

In all my years, I haven't found one that throws better than my Redding, with the pistol insert (5/16 dia insert) and my double baffle (powder above the baffle), for charges up to 20 gr.

The micrometer adjustment, always repeats itself, too! I have a book with at least 20 powders and mic settings for above and below the range I use for them. I also made two rotors .500 for +/- 30 gr (CBA matches) and one that is only .200, for 1.0 - 5 gr, for BSing my 22rf.

Now, I must say, that I have never bought or used a Harrels, mainly because I consider them over priced for the needed use (I truly don't think my measure can be improved upon) BUT, if they would measure 4759 better than a B&M, they might have value. Has anyone test them in that application?? But, then it wouldn't really matter, would it Smiley

Pictured are about 2/3 of my measures (all that would fit my stand).
  

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bullshop
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #17 - yesterday at 2:03pm
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So do you agree that the B&M will drop consistent charges ?
  
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #18 - yesterday at 2:27pm
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bullshop wrote yesterday at 2:03pm:
So do you agree that the B&M will drop consistent charges ?


That's what I have been using for schutzen for the last year an a half with good results.  I did get a harrels for Christmas that I will be using now. I still use the B&M for black powder and larger smokeless loads
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #19 - yesterday at 3:46pm
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bullshop wrote yesterday at 2:03pm:
So do you agree that the B&M will drop consistent charges ?

Diffidently the best but, way to slow at the range, at least for me.

You still have to do everything the same when measuring with them.
  

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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #20 - yesterday at 4:48pm
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The B&M is a good measure my # 2.  Use it for BP 

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marlinguy
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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #21 - yesterday at 5:15pm
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I use a Harrell's large measure, and a scheutzen measure. The scheutzen for smaller charges, and vice versa the large for larger cases.
I wouldn't ever go back to any of my older measures.

I bought a half dozen extra hoppers off the internet for very reasonable prices around $3.25 each. I keep them marked with my favorite loads for my favorite powders so I can quickly dial in a charge and be dropping the same charge I've done hundreds of times. When I'm done I screw on a lid and set the bottles in my ammo locker for future use.
  

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Re: Harrells vs 4227 ?
Reply #22 - yesterday at 9:23pm
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I should add I use my B&M for 4759 as well as Black Powder. I just don't shoot much 4759 anymore. The Belding is very good for stick powders. I credit the spring return for its accuracy. Can't be short stroked

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