Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES (Read 300 times)
oughtsix
Global Moderator
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1231
Location: Columbus
Joined: May 31st, 2009
NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES
May 3rd, 2024 at 8:46am
Print Post  
ANNOUNCING NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES

In the spirit of acknowledging the Germanic origins of our sport and encouraging participation with Germanic rifles, the ASSRA Board has approved the establishment of two new classes of targets at ASSRA events.  The Germanic Traditional Class will be for Germanic (German/Swiss/Austrian Schuetzen style) rifles of traditional configuration.  The Germanic Unlimited Class will be for Germanic rifles that are used with scopes, palm rests, click type iron sights, or other nontraditional configurations or are shot from the bench.  The Germanic Unlimited Class would be the equivalent of current ASSRA “Any Sight” targets and the Germanic Traditional Class would be the equivalent of current ASSRA “Traditional” targets, shot with rifles satisfying the definition of traditional in form and use. 

Any existing target type being shot at ASSRA events that is shot with a Germanic rifle can qualify for an ASSRA record in one of the two categories.  A person shooting a traditional Germanic rifle would indicate entry in that class by stamping their target “GERMAN” AND “TRADITIONAL”.  A person shooting a modified Germanic rifle or shooting ANY Germanic rifle from the bench would indicate entry in that class by stamping their target “GERMAN” only.   Unless target rules specify otherwise, targets may be shot during any relay with Germanic rifles just like they may be with American or custom rifles.  Centerfire Germanic rifles will qualify for all ASSRA centerfire events as long as targets are properly stamped, and .22 LR Germanic rifles-if you’re fortunate enough to own one-will qualify for all ASSRA .22 events as long as targets are properly stamped.  We will no longer shoot what we have called the “Fun” targets, which did not conform to standard ASSRA target types and distances and seemed to cause uncertainty and confusion.

Targets that are shot in the Traditional Class will ONLY be offhand targets with guns of a traditional configuration because that’s, well, traditional.   There will be no “Traditional Class” for bench rest events, because well, that’s not traditional.  Modified Germanic rifles may be shot at “Any Sight” offhand targets or at benchrest targets and would be stamped “German” only because neither of those is a traditional use of a Germanic rifle.  Traditional rifles may be shot in irons or any sight benchrest events, but mark them ONLY “German”, NOT “Traditional” because bench events were never shot in European events and still aren’t.  Shooters may choose to shoot their Germanic rifles in benchrest events to determine what ultimate accuracy they are capable of and to compete for records in those events, but we will never pretend that doing so is in any form a traditional use of these guns.

Members of the ISSA have agreed to let us use their definition of Traditional German rifles.  Thanks!  Their definition is found on their website at: issa-schuetzen.org under “RULES”, then “ISSA TRADITIONAL GERMAN RULES”.   Their rules have been in effect since 2008 and it looks like they have the bugs worked out.  Rather than reproduce those rules here, we ask you to refer to the ISSA website.   Check out the rest of their site, too, and see if it would work out to attend one or more of their events.  They are brothers and sisters in single shot arms.  Instead of shooting their course of 20 shots on a 25 ring target, we will shoot 3 shot Honor targets, reentry, with both centerfires and .22s (75 possible) at 100 yards and 200 yards.  These would be considered new targets-unique to Germanic guns.  I have initial interest from ISSA that these 3 shot Honor targets would be what we would use for postal matches I’ve proposed between us-if we can agree on the details of such matches.  I’ll make the same offer to engage in 3 shot postal matches to the GGCA and NMLA

Now, shooters will have the option of competing with their Germanic rifles at any current ASSRA targets to compete for national ASSRA records in the two new classes of “Traditional Germanic” and “Unlimited (any sight/configuration) Germanic” rifles. When shooting Germanic guns at already existing ASSRA targets, the course of fire will be whatever number of shots have always been used on those targets: 10 shots for a Schoyen, Zischang, or Brockway i.e., 5 shots for a Kelly, 100 shots for a Hudson, etc.  If you want your target to get recognition as being shot with a Germanic rifle, you will need to satisfy the rules for that target event and rifle and stamp it correctly.     In the case of a Schoyen, Brockway, Kelly or other BENCHREST target, that would mean ONLY a German stamp-even if shot with a rifle of traditional configuration-because these guns were not, and not, shot from the bench in European Schuetzen matches.  If shooting a Zischang target, for example, the course of fire would be the standard 10 shots, offhand. This is specified as an iron sight offhand match at 200 yards for CF and 100 yards for RF.
  

Life Member ASSRA, OGCA &  TSGC
I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oughtsix
Global Moderator
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1231
Location: Columbus
Joined: May 31st, 2009
Re: NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES pg 2
Reply #1 - May 3rd, 2024 at 8:50am
Print Post  
If you shoot this event with a Germanic rifle fitted with Redfield Olympic sights (which are not traditional) you would stamp that target “German” only.  If your rifle satisfies the Traditional German Rifle configuration in all respects, you will stamp that target “German” AND “Traditional” because it satisfies both the Traditional German Rifle rules AND it is being shot the traditional way, which is offhand. Again, a benchrest target would NEVER be stamped “Traditional” -even if the gun is of a traditional configuration- and neither would a target that was shot with a rifle that doesn’t satisfy ALL of the requirements of the definition of a Traditional German Rifle, even if it’s an offhand target.

This is all a work in progress.  I’ll expand on this announcement and turn it into an article for the ASSRA Journal with refinements, clarifications, and answers to any questions I receive in time to include them.

Because the folks there are also brothers and sisters in single shot arms, please take a look at the German Gun Collectors Association to introduce yourself to more lovers of the Germanic guns and lots of great information about them at:  germanhuntingguns.com

We hope to see you soon at an ASSRA range with one or more Germanic rifle/s in hand.
  

Life Member ASSRA, OGCA &  TSGC
I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
hopkinskid
Participating Member
*
Offline


ASSRA Board Member

Posts: 39
Location: Hopkins, MI
Joined: May 12th, 2020
Re: NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES
Reply #2 - May 13th, 2024 at 11:23pm
Print Post  
Here's info on a .22 LR Germanic Rifle Match we will try this Saturday, May 18, 2024 at Beeson Range after the regular relays are done at 5 pm.
Geoff Crowe

BEESON .22 LR GERMANIC HONOR TARGET MATCH: MAY 18, 2024
This match will be 3 shots (75 possible) at an ASSRA 1.5 target at 100 yards after the regular Saturday relays are finished.  This will model what ASSRA will now call the Germanic Honor Target-which is a reentry target. Since it is an offhand event, the leaded edge of bullet holes will be used for scoring. 
In the first stage of the match, anyone wanting to enter will place a $5 entry fee into the German beer stein at the bench-which will allow each person entered to shoot 3 offhand shots at the target with a Germanic .22 rifle for a total score from the 3 shots.  Outside the scoring rings, but on the paper, scores 10, and off the paper scores 0. After this first stage, any shooter(s) wishing to try to improve their score may place another $2 entry fee into the stein to shoot another 3 shots for score. After the first 2 stages (and any after) shooters wanting to try to improve their scores can enter another 3 shot stage for $1.  This will continue until no one is left that wants to pay for another stage.  A shooter must participate in the 1st stage to shoot in the 2nd stage and so on.  (No waiting until the 3rd stage so you can shoot for a buck, Richard…)
The first-place finisher’s prize will be a vintage German beer glass of his/her choice and 3 German beers of his/her choice.  The second-place finisher’s prize will be their choice of 2 German beers and the third-place finisher gets to choose a single German beer.  Anyone and everyone scoring a 25 will receive a German beer after the 1st-3rd place finishers pick.  In the American version of tradition, we will drink our German beer ice cold.
Due to the scarcity of owners of Germanic .22s, I will make my Emil Kerner & Sohn .22 LR Schuetzen rifle and ammo available to anyone who would like to shoot it.  (Emil Kerner & Son made guns together from 1890-1914 before Ernst was registered as a buchsenmacher, or gun maker, on his own in 1914.  My rifle has no proof marks nor serial number to narrow its date of manufacture within that date range, BUT it was made in Suhl with a Krupp steel barrel which I think is about the coolest thing ever-other than also having $10,000 worth of German deep relief engraving, but you can’t have everything!)
Geoff Crowe
« Last Edit: May 14th, 2024 at 12:07pm by hopkinskid »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JägerWilhelm
Full Member
***
Offline


ASSRA #8407

Posts: 191
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Joined: Sep 13th, 2015
Re: NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES
Reply #3 - May 15th, 2024 at 12:42pm
Print Post  
I think thse new classes are great news!!!

When I joined the Columbia Schützenverein 8+ years ago Chris started the "German rifle" event. We fired off the bench at 100 (T-1) and 200 (T-4). So, based on the above it would not be "traditional" (which makes sense), and many had replaced front sights (Lyman, etc) as well. While a number of folks have "German" (German, Austrian, or Swiss Schützens, only a few participate. Am glad that event will be covered in the new rules. That might encourage more participation.

For our August 3-day shoot I will add a "Germanic Traditional Class" based on the tentative rules above.

In reference to the May 18th .22 LR match, I have 2 Schützens in .22 LR. Will that match also be part of the late August Beeson match?
« Last Edit: yesterday at 11:45am by JägerWilhelm »  

NRA Life, GGCA Director, OVMS Life, FDHAS Life

Mit Schützengruß,
Willi
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yamoon
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


NRA Life, ASSRA , GGCA,
MCA

Posts: 815
Location: Junction City Kansas
Joined: Feb 11th, 2012
Re: NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES
Reply #4 - May 16th, 2024 at 12:53pm
Print Post  
I have several 8.15x46r, I hope someday to find an original in 22lr that I can afford.
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
moodyholler
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 675
Location: Blue Ridge
Joined: Oct 11th, 2005
Re: NEW ASSRA EVENTS WITH GERMANIC RIFLES
Reply #5 - May 16th, 2024 at 4:44pm
Print Post  
My Austrian 9.5x47 single shot bolt gu qualify? Thanks!
moodyholler
  
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint