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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help! Cratering on my block face (Read 2496 times)
KFW
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #15 - May 4th, 2024 at 8:28am
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If one builds or buys a pistol primer pocket swaging die it will set the pocket depth to saami LP specs. The operation will also uniform the flash hole. I have fired 3 calibers for several years by this method and have no cratering. If there was a issue it would have shown up on the 2 piece Ballard breech block parting line. No pierced or blown primers in .40-70, .40-82 or .45-90 using Swiss.
kw
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #16 - May 4th, 2024 at 3:13pm
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As I said , just one opinion, although not so humble. Just would rather be cautious myself, and not recommend otherwise.
  

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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #17 - May 4th, 2024 at 3:24pm
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KaiserKong  I have no idea if anyone is making shims. We are talking very thin as in aluminum can? so possibly just a sharp punch of appropriate diameter, then dilled for flash hole. Seems to me, KFW has a solution.
  

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Dellet
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #18 - May 4th, 2024 at 3:32pm
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The interesting thing to look at is old load data. More
Often than not. The 2 1/2 primer is listed for a rifle primer. Even current data for 32-40 will use 2 1/2 primers.
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #19 - May 4th, 2024 at 5:51pm
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Also interesting to note that in a 38-55 at a higher pressure,  show LR primers. As pressure rises, the use of pistol primers diminishes. I will still be conservative when reloading. In fact, I would call Hodgdon and talk to one of their ballisticians before using any load when in doubt. At what pressure level do you discontinue the use of pistol primers, and which one? Some primers are considerably hotter than others. When in doubt, find out.
  

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Dellet
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #20 - May 4th, 2024 at 11:11pm
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rkba2nd wrote on May 4th, 2024 at 5:51pm:
Also interesting to note that in a 38-55 at a higher pressure,  show LR primers. As pressure rises, the use of pistol primers diminishes. I will still be conservative when reloading. In fact, I would call Hodgdon and talk to one of their ballisticians before using any load when in doubt. At what pressure level do you discontinue the use of pistol primers, and which one? Some primers are considerably hotter than others. When in doubt, find out.

Probably the bigger difference is that the 38-55 is actually a SAMMI accepted cartridge where the 32-40 is not.

UMC-Remington listed more than a dozen different primers in only two sizes. Variations such as #6 and #6 1/2 was that one was copper, the other brass. When you read cartridge descriptions in the catalogs of the day it lists the primers used. There doesn’t seem to be much rhyme or reason to pressures and or smokeless or black powders. But interesting to see.

The first “large rifle” primer appeared around 1910-20. 
Memory says it appeared about the time of gearing up for WWI and the 30-06 cartridge.
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #21 - May 5th, 2024 at 2:38am
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That fact , that the 38-55 is a listed SAMMI cartridge, and the 32-40 is not, is very interesting to me. I was not aware of that, and would have to wonder what the reason was. I will have to do a little re- reading in the Marlin and Ballard books to see what information might be there since both are Ballard cartridges. I don't recall that discussion in either, but has been a very long time. Thanks for that information Dellet.
  

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Dellet
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #22 - May 5th, 2024 at 4:08am
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rkba2nd wrote on May 5th, 2024 at 2:38am:
That fact , that the 38-55 is a listed SAMMI cartridge, and the 32-40 is not, is very interesting to me. I was not aware of that, and would have to wonder what the reason was. I will have to do a little re- reading in the Marlin and Ballard books to see what information might be there since both are Ballard cartridges. I don't recall that discussion in either, but has been a very long time. Thanks for that information Dellet.

SAAMI was founded in 1926. No one has bothered to submit the 32-40 for acceptance.

I don’t know when the 38-55 was submitted. Possibly not until the cartridge was kind of re introduced with the Winchester commemorative models. It would be an interesting piece of trivia to know.
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #23 - May 5th, 2024 at 10:44am
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The 1992 SAAMI document does list the .32-40. Later one does not.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #24 - May 5th, 2024 at 1:42pm
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.32-40 was listed until some idiot decided to declare the .32-40 an obsolete cartridge.
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #25 - May 5th, 2024 at 3:55pm
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marlinguy   I'm quite sure you would be vastly outnumbered if you called anyone who considered the 32-40 obsolete, or even was unaware of the cartridge an idiot. Some may not take it lightly. We are an obscure minority at best.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #26 - May 5th, 2024 at 9:34pm
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rkba2nd wrote on May 5th, 2024 at 3:55pm:
marlinguy   I'm quite sure you would be vastly outnumbered if you called anyone who considered the 32-40 obsolete, or even was unaware of the cartridge an idiot. Some may not take it lightly. We are an obscure minority at best.


I think you've misunderstood my comment? I didn't say I considered it obsolete, I said someone who decided to classify it as obsolete. And whoever did so was an idiot. Not sure how anyone would have their feelings hurt by me not being happy about the demise of the .32-40?
I standby my feelings about whoever classified the .32-40 as obsolete! I love the cartridge, and have quite a few in this chambering.
  

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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #27 - May 5th, 2024 at 10:06pm
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Gotta agree with you, Vall. Especially since a heckuva lot of repeaters were chambered for it also. Shouldn't be any skin off their nose to keep it on the books anyway even if it is "obsolete".

Next thing you know some idiot will pronounce the .44 Henry Flat obsolete too, and then where will we be? Roll Eyes
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #28 - May 5th, 2024 at 10:25pm
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gnoahhh wrote on May 5th, 2024 at 10:06pm:
Gotta agree with you, Vall. Especially since a heckuva lot of repeaters were chambered for it also. Shouldn't be any skin off their nose to keep it on the books anyway even if it is "obsolete".

Next thing you know some idiot will pronounce the .44 Henry Flat obsolete too, and then where will we be? Roll Eyes


Seems like as soon as someone determines there's no new guns being made in a cartridge they decide the cartridge is obsolete! Then suddenly the price of that brass, and any other brass you can use to make it goes bananas! 
It's getting really tough on younger guys just starting out in our hobby to justify the cost of a good singleshot rifle. Then add to that the cost of dies, and brass and it is one reason our hobby has nothing but us gray haired guys left.
  

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KaiserKong
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #29 - May 5th, 2024 at 11:44pm
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KFW,
Interesting idea on the primer swagger. Have you used it to change large rifle primer pockets into large pistol pockets? Reading up on the website of a few of them they mention using it to ensure round holes and remove pocket crimps, but not about adjusting the pocket height. So is that an untold feature? 

Also for the records on using reliable sources for data - the load for my 8.15x46R cartridge is from Charlie Dell’s book where he calls out using the Rem 2 1/2 pistol primer.  Several of the other books by Waters or Kelver list the same primer in 32-40 or 33-47. I believe the primary reason not to use a pistol primer in a rifle cartridge is because most rifles have stronger springs that could pierce the pistol primer. From the photo here showing my Rem 2 1/2 spent primers (brass color) they do not get pierced by my light striking Aydt rifle pin. The Fed 210 rifle primers (steel color) struck in the same rifle are noticeably smaller indentation which is why I believe is leading to less repeatable ignition. The velocity variance using the rifle primer on my rifle is more than double than with the pistol primer.
  
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