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Why: Black v Smokeless (Read 735 times)

Grand slam Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 310 Location: Mountains of E. Tennessee Joined: Jun 7^th, 2015	Why: Black v Smokeless Mar 27^th, 2024 at 9:15am	Print Post
	Why are smokeless and duplex loads more accurate than black powder. Would like to know all of the pet theories. Thanks Richard


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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 3955 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #1 - Mar 27^th, 2024 at 9:32am	Print Post
	Smokeless combusts the BP fouling (reduces barrel fouling) and increases velocity somewhat as well. Magnum primers do the same thing but not as effectively as a duplex load. Duplex is not allowed in BPCR Silhouette so use Magnum primers instead.


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Ranch13 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 529 Location: East Central Wy. Joined: Jan 20^th, 2018	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #2 - Mar 27^th, 2024 at 10:10am	Print Post
	The biggest reason smokeless/duplex might be more accurate than straight black is due to fouling control. Smokeless doesn't require any, black needs consistent good fouling control for the best accuracy. I doubt that a smokeless load put up against someone shooting black that uses excelent fouling control technigue combined with large pistol primers would be any better if as good as the blackpowder load.


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Grand slam Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 310 Location: Mountains of E. Tennessee Joined: Jun 7^th, 2015	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #3 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 10:02am	Print Post
	Thanks guys. I was under the impression, wrongly so I guess, that smokeless was inherently more accurate than black powder, even with excellent fouling control for straight black. ??? Thanks Richard


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Hypo5.0 Participating Member Offline Posts: 43 Joined: Feb 21^st, 2023	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #4 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 11:55am	Print Post
	I have a Browning BPCR 40-65 that shot smokeless more like a shotgun. After taking the advice of several on this forum and switching to BP- it shoots awesome and a pleasure to shoot 😎


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11327 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #5 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 12:16pm	Print Post
	Both of my 40-65s shoot smokeless extremely well when the bullet is breech seated. When fixed not much better than BP.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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SchwartzStock Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1010 Location: SchwarzWald Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2010	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #6 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 12:18pm	Print Post
	20 years ago magnum primers were in vogue but I believe all serious black powder cartridge guys have got away from them now. Although magnum primers can help in cleaning up the combustion they produce higher ES (extreme spread) in comparison to standard primers. Low ES are one factor of developing precise loads. Finding the right compression for a load along with a good lube will take care of the fouling issues.

	Halt Fest! Ziel Gut! Schiess Fleck!
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11327 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #7 - Mar 28^th, 2024 at 12:36pm	Print Post
	The only things I have found that solve BP fouling issues is wiping between shots or duplex loads.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Ray_Newman Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 274 Location: Washington State Joined: Jul 13^th, 2004	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #8 - Apr 1^st, 2024 at 3:41pm	Print Post
	Based on my experience with Black, Smokeless, and Duplex, I due believe that Ranch13 and Schuetzen Dave are onto it!

	ASSRA Life #194
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SchwartzStock Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1010 Location: SchwarzWald Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2010	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #9 - Apr 11^th, 2024 at 9:00am	Print Post
	With straight BP you can get around the fouling if you can keep it soft, this can be done by making sure you have adequate lube on or behind the bullet in the form of a cookie or you can blowtube. If you are going to wipe between shots why not just shoot a muzzleloader?

	Halt Fest! Ziel Gut! Schiess Fleck!
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RJ-35-40 Full Member Offline Posts: 138 Joined: Dec 7^th, 2016	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #10 - Apr 14^th, 2024 at 3:38pm	Print Post
	Hi Richard, This observation doesn't address the Duplex / vs Straight Black question the you were looking for but my experience is that I've always done much better on targets with straight black vs. straight smokeless. The couple of duplex loads I have shot clearly leaves a cleaner barrel. I've not shot Duplex loads, other than a time or two, as I don't want to develop a load I couldn't shoot in comp. Not that I have been to a match or competed for the last 30 trips around the sun so it shouldn't matter but I prefer straight black That being said my best results (single digit ES and lowest SD) come from the following With Straight Black 30" Drop Tube .12 compression Swiss #4, (1/12F) all same lot number Cases Full length sized Fed GM 150 Pistol primers with newspaper disk over primer Paul Mathews lube formula w/ cookie Blow tube between shots 20/1 All fixed so far / no breech seating, (maybe future experimentation) Grand slam wrote on Mar 27^th, 2024 at 9:15am: Why are smokeless and duplex loads more accurate than black powder. Would like to know all of the pet theories. Thanks Richard


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JHand Participating Member Offline Posts: 12 Joined: Apr 15^th, 2024	Re: Why: Black v Smokeless Reply #11 - Apr 24^th, 2024 at 5:21pm	Print Post
	Well, I am about to go down this trail since I am going from BPCR Silhouette to Schutzen, but I have gotten amazing accuracy from black powder with good fouling control. My best accuracy came from 3 "wipes" 1st a wet bore pig, then a wet patch, then a dry patch. This got me 5 shot, 1" groups with my 45-70 at 200 yards. Unfortunately don't have the time to do that in Silhouette, so my wiping solution now has a base of alcohol instead of water so it evaporate quick. I hope to at least be able to duplicate that accuracy with smokeless


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