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yamoon
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405 Winchester
Mar 6th, 2024 at 11:24am
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I am considering having a German falling block that is currently a 6mm Krag bored and rifled to 405 WCF. The SAMMI specs are .413 groove diameter. Hornaday offers a .4115 bullet and other custom makers advertise.411 for the 405. Is there a reason for the 2 thousands undersized bullets?
Thanks Mike
  
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Ranch13
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #1 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 12:02pm
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The 411 bullets from Hornady and Northfork shoot well in my Winchester model 95 reintroduction rifle.
But keep in mind that the 405 brass is pretty long and unless you can come up with 405 brass, reformed 30-40 and the like will fall pretty short and may or may not cause some leading problems with cast bullets.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #2 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 1:02pm
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Regardless of the cartridge choice, I'd always check availability to brass before having a barrel bored or new barrel chambered. .405 Hornady brass was once plentiful, but it's either unavailable, or very expensive now. 
I use .405 Hornady for 6 rifles in .40-63 Ballard, and .40-70SS, and I've stopped buying more brass now as what I do find is usually $3-$4 a piece now, if you can even find it.
  

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Ranch13
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #3 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 1:08pm
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If you could solve the brass problem for 405, getting a 405 blank from Douglas probably your best bet.
I believe in Ken Waters book, he describes turning 9.3x72 brass into 405, but I'm betting that would be pretty hard to find at affordable prices now as well.
  
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beltfed
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #4 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 4:34pm
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I would strongly suggest you consider boring to 400/408/ 16 twist for bullets up to 1.325" long/380 grains or so or 14 twist for longer heavier bullets.
and chamber for the 40-65. Starline has made 40-65 cases
AND you can form this ctg from 45-70 with a standard
40-65 die from Lyman/RCBS/Redding,etc.
The 40-65 is a "falling off a log" easy to develop loads for
compared to the 405W/40-72/40-70 Sharps.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #5 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 6:52pm
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beltfed wrote on Mar 6th, 2024 at 4:34pm:
I would strongly suggest you consider boring to 400/408/ 16 twist for bullets up to 1.325" long/380 grains or so or 14 twist for longer heavier bullets.
and chamber for the 40-65. Starline has made 40-65 cases
AND you can form this ctg from 45-70 with a standard
40-65 die from Lyman/RCBS/Redding,etc.
The 40-65 is a "falling off a log" easy to develop loads for
compared to the 405W/40-72/40-70 Sharps.
beltfed/arnie


Agree 40-65 solves a lot of problems.
I've made 405 from 9.3x74R but they're a little short.

  

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marlinguy
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #6 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 8:55pm
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Cat_Whisperer wrote on Mar 6th, 2024 at 6:52pm:
beltfed wrote on Mar 6th, 2024 at 4:34pm:
I would strongly suggest you consider boring to 400/408/ 16 twist for bullets up to 1.325" long/380 grains or so or 14 twist for longer heavier bullets.
and chamber for the 40-65. Starline has made 40-65 cases
AND you can form this ctg from 45-70 with a standard
40-65 die from Lyman/RCBS/Redding,etc.
The 40-65 is a "falling off a log" easy to develop loads for
compared to the 405W/40-72/40-70 Sharps.
beltfed/arnie


Agree 40-65 solves a lot of problems.
I've made 405 from 9.3x74R but they're a little short.



A little short? A 9.3x74R is 2.93" long, and isn't the .405 about 2.59" long? I use 9.3x74R for my longer .40-85 Ballard just by fire forming to .40-85B and they're the exact length without trimming. Should have to trim them a fair amount for a .405 Win. and rims will be slightly small.
  

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RJE
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #7 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 9:15pm
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Used to have a 405 1895 but always wanted a highwall in it
  
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yamoon
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #8 - Mar 6th, 2024 at 11:45pm
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This is it, I got it in a trade, I added the scope. It is a 6mm Krag.
I don’t shoot it. I have always wanted an African caliber, I would like a 400/450 but don’t believe the barrel shank is large enough, therefore 405 WCF. The elephants are destroying my front yard.
Mike
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #9 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 10:41am
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Might consider a 9.3x74R as brass is plentiful now, and reamers are easy to find also. Wouldn't be an elephant gun, but would be appropriate for your beautiful rifle.
  

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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #10 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 11:29am
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It's my observation that the .40's exhibit more than their fair share of dimensional differences in bore sizes. Am I alone in that?

OP: how will you increase size? New barrel or re-bore the existing one?

I gotta say I would be plumb tickled to have that jewel just as it is. I bet there's others that would feel the same way.
  
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yamoon
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #11 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 3:44pm
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Thinking of a rebore, the smart move would be sell it or rebore to 30-40 Krag. The twist rate on the McGowan 6mm barrel is the old 6mm Remington twist, so it doesn’t stabilize longer bullets. I don’t need another deer rifle, I was just thinking of something different. 9.3x74r might be the way to go. If I rebore, I can use the existing scope mount, and if I stay with a rim size that is near .545, no extractor mod or fitting is necessary.
Mike
  
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #12 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 4:44pm
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Mike,
Stick with your original thoughts. In the big picture a dozen 405 cases is small change. That is one cool rifle. I’m sure Teddy would approve!
  
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #13 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 5:33pm
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What about. 303 British that's a caliber that saw use in Africa and the case head size is close to the krag.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #14 - Mar 7th, 2024 at 5:45pm
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SBoomer wrote on Mar 7th, 2024 at 4:44pm:
Mike,
Stick with your original thoughts. In the big picture a dozen 405 cases is small change. That is one cool rifle. I’m sure Teddy would approve!


That would be fine IF he can even find any at any price.
  

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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #15 - Mar 8th, 2024 at 9:42am
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About 7-8 years back I had C. Sharps build me an 1875 model in 405. I didn't get to shoot it though, a friend would not give me a rest and gave me twice the purchase price for it.... Always thought I would get another but too many other projects are in the way  Wink
  

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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #16 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 10:41am
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I have only found .405 cases one time and bought all the guy had. Some had been fired with black powder and not cleaned so were pretty ugly. They cleaned up good with my rotary tumbler, water and dish soap with stainless steel pins.
They were Hornaday brand and seem to work well through original M95 Winchester. 
Hornaday didn't run those cases that long ago, you'd think it would be easier to find.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #17 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 11:11am
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When Hornady brought back their .405 brass I was very excited and bought every 25 pc. bag I could find. Back then they ran about $30 a bag, and I built up a good supply. Then suddenly Hornady dropped it with no warning!
But a few years back Gary Reeder Custom Guns got in a back order that they had ordered long before Hornady stopped. His order was 20,000 cases and he sold them at the old price before they went crazy. He had a 500 pc. maximum, and I ordered 500 pcs. I told some friends the next day, and when they called the entire 20,000 pcs. were already sold.
  

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yamoon
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #18 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 11:26am
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I would think 405 cases being Straight walled, with smokeless powder, would last several firings, my wife’s rifle is a 28-30 and the brass has been fired many times. She breach seats the bullets.
Mike
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #19 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 6:29pm
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yamoon wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 11:26am:
I would think 405 cases being Straight walled, with smokeless powder, would last several firings, my wife’s rifle is a 28-30 and the brass has been fired many times. She breach seats the bullets.
Mike


I've never lost a case yet. Mine are all shortened to .40-63 Ballard or .40-70SS and none have split. But my pressures are down around 18000-19000 and velocities around 1350 with 4198 smokeless powder. 
If I ever lose a case it will likely because I damaged or dropped it, not from reloads.
  

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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #20 - Mar 9th, 2024 at 11:51pm
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According to Donnelly, 405 cases are makeable, but the results are a "compromise".
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #21 - Mar 10th, 2024 at 12:18pm
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craigster wrote on Mar 9th, 2024 at 11:51pm:
According to Donnelly, 405 cases are makeable, but the results are a "compromise".


The cases Donelly mentions as a compromise are the .30-40 Krag he states are short. But BACO was somehow stretching them to be as long as .40-70SS or .40-63 Ballard, but never to .405 length that I know of. Those stretched cases were pretty thin though.
  

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Re: 405 Winchester
Reply #22 - Apr 6th, 2024 at 9:54pm
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Not inexpensive, but Rocky Mountain Cartridge currently catalogs 405 Basic for around $170 for a box of 20. Ammo can be had on Gun Broker for kidnappers' prices, and CH4D and RCBS are both making dies.
Trust me, when you pull the trigger on a 405W and a 40-65 Win, you'll know which one you want for chasing those pesky elephants out of the wife's roses.
  
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