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CW
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A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Mar 4th, 2024 at 1:08pm
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I just learned what is an interesting fact about C Sharps low wall rimfire rifles. They use centerfire breach blocks and firing pins. 

I looked at a friends 22 BPCR rifle this weekend and confirmed this, but in the quick look I had, I did not see what is being done to produce the pin strike in the correct place. 
Is it an offset barrel, or is it by changing the link to lower (or raise) the breach block? 

For extra credit, Second Question: what is the size of the pin / diameter through the BB face?  In other words, what diameter wire would be used to fix a broken one?

Thanks!!!
  
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jhm
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #1 - Mar 4th, 2024 at 5:17pm
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My guess would be the link. Much like Martini's having their levers modified for rim or center fire. Just a guess...



JMH
  
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Ranch13
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #2 - Mar 4th, 2024 at 6:32pm
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I have often wondered about the offset in the block.
But for the extra points, when you order a replacement pin from them they send you a center fire pin, and you have to file the end of the pin to flat so that it will fit thru the slot , then adjust the length. So if you're going to try and just replace the firing pin itself you can use what ever size you can get to fit in the casting part, and then do the filing to fit thru the rimfire hole in the breechblock.
  
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bpcrnut
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #3 - Mar 4th, 2024 at 6:43pm
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CW, I’ve done two or three low walls using C Sharps breach blocks.  I believe the 22 RF blocks are unique to that caliber.  You can raise the firing pin strike by a using a longer connecting link but that has a couple potential drawbacks. You might end up with the breach block high enough to protrude above the of the receiver.  At the same time you could find the legs of breach block short of being flush with the bottom of the receiver.

Extra credit: Firing pin diameter 0.078”.
  
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CW
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #4 - Mar 4th, 2024 at 8:30pm
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Ranch13 wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 6:32pm:
I have often wondered about the offset in the block.
But for the extra points, when you order a replacement pin from them they send you a center fire pin, and you have to file the end of the pin to flat so that it will fit thru the slot , then adjust the length. So if you're going to try and just replace the firing pin itself you can use what ever size you can get to fit in the casting part, and then do the filing to fit thru the rimfire hole in the breechblock.


I think you lost me there Don. The BB hole is round and replacement pins from both DZ and C Sharps are round as well, and both fit and work with no modification.   

  
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CW
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #5 - Mar 4th, 2024 at 8:38pm
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bpcrnut wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 6:43pm:
CW, I’ve done two or three low walls using C Sharps breach blocks.  I believe the 22 RF blocks are unique to that caliber.  You can raise the firing pin strike by a using a longer connecting link but that has a couple potential drawbacks. You might end up with the breach block high enough to protrude above the of the receiver.  At the same time you could find the legs of breach block short of being flush with the bottom of the receiver.

Extra credit: Firing pin diameter 0.078”.


Thanks!!! I think you could be on to something! I could not see how it was done, so your explanation fits the facts. I guess a little more sleuthing is needed. 
If that is the case, I want one of their BB's. That could be useful!!!
  
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Ranch13
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #6 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 8:46am
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CW wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 8:30pm:
Ranch13 wrote on Mar 4th, 2024 at 6:32pm:
I have often wondered about the offset in the block.
But for the extra points, when you order a replacement pin from them they send you a center fire pin, and you have to file the end of the pin to flat so that it will fit thru the slot , then adjust the length. So if you're going to try and just replace the firing pin itself you can use what ever size you can get to fit in the casting part, and then do the filing to fit thru the rimfire hole in the breechblock.


I think you lost me there Don. The BB hole is round and replacement pins from both DZ and C Sharps are round as well, and both fit and work with no modification.  



Maybe on the example of one that you have looked at but if you look at the example of one that I own, had built by CSA , the round firing pins won't fit without modification to flatten the striking end of the pin..
Don't believe me you can ask Ahmer about it.. he worked on the gun to try and solve some issues with it..
  
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CW
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #7 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 11:04am
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Don. I didn't say anything about not believing you.  There is no reason for you to be defensive. 

This rifle, as it comes from C Sharps is not that way.  Center fire pins, both DZ and C Sharps, go right in and work. I am just trying to learn how this rifle is set up. 
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2024 at 12:42am by CW »  
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Ranch13
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #8 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 12:00pm
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Well its just a typical CSA thing, sort of like a box of chocolates, never sure what you're going to get.
Another thing to watch for is the way those breechblocks are set up, the firing pin can ding into the rim recess outside of the the cartridge rim itself. So if that's happening either need to grind a small relief at the top of the rim recess or modify the end of the pin to clear the face of the barrel
  
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #9 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 12:16pm
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Michael,

I'm a little late to the party but the C-Sharps I have in my possession is a CF and I've been in one that was a RF and from what I remember in the cobwebs - it had a breech block just like the original, the firing pin hole was offset by .070"  Here's an original 22 compared to the C-Sharps and the original has a fp diameter of .110" - fwiw- I don't recall the rf CS having that size pin.
As mentioned, using the same block but changing the link, it's possible, but it's going to change a lot of operating geometry.  Maybe on an 1885 but not an option on the Ballard.  I remember reading something about Pope, or Niedner, or the Zettlers doing this to a HW but having some issues also.  Peterson did the offset bore and that works, just looks hinky.

A couple things to note, the firing pin in my sample CS, it looks like a pin is glued in the way we've been repairing them, (this block came to me via CS) and the size is .079" so did they make it like this?  The other thing about the CS hammer pin is it is a threaded pin vs the split spring pin so don't try driving it out like you do the originals.
See you this weekend if everything aligns.
Greg
  

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CW
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Re: A question about C Sharps rimfires.
Reply #10 - Mar 5th, 2024 at 9:09pm
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Greg, Thank you for taking the time to put together the pictures and making the post. A lot of good information!!!!  Especially the pin in the BB. That would have been a oooops if I tried to knock it out!

Saturday we may get a chance to look at Steve's rifle. You can tell me what you think.
  
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