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SILVERTIP
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Corrosive primers
Dec 4th, 2023 at 11:22pm
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With the increased cost of primers, some shooters may be tempted to use older unknown primers or de-prime ancient cases to salvage primers.


It may be time to re-visit the issues involved in the use of older corrosive/mercuric primers.

The most recent available 30-06 ammunition supplied with corrosive primers was some lots of match FA cartridges loaded through the 1950s possibly into the  early 1960s.  Much of WWI and WW II ammunition was corrosive primed. And also the possibility of commercial primers in small containers dating back to before the 1920s.
Mercuric priming found in certain early primers contains 
a chlorate of mercury compound that rendered black powder or
smokeless powder cases brittle. This made them unfit for reloading  usage.
Additionally, the priming salts tended to  remain in the bore after firing. If not removed by cleaning, the affected bores would rust.

In addition to these issues, along with  age and possible unreliable ignition, older 
mercuric corrosive  primers should probably be discarded-
as they just may be more trouble than they are worth. Shocked
  

Socialism represents the equal sharing of misery.  Churchill
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gnoahhh
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #1 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 12:01am
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Mercuric primers went out of use in the very early years of the 20th century. Chlorate primers took their place in U.S. military ammunition from then until the early-mid 1950's.

Chlorate primers were perfectly harmless to brass, but as we know played hell with gun barrels if cleaning regimens weren't adhered to. Mercuric priming compounds attacked brass cases but that was so long ago that it doesn't bear being concerned about today. 

Why did the gov't insist on retaining chlorate primers long after commercial sporting ammo makers had switched to non-corrosive primers? Simple, the old FA-70 primer (chlorate compound) was dead reliable - it was proven to remain stable in utterly atrocious storage conditions - and was notoriously consistent in nature. Some pretty good reasons when men's lives were at stake. Handloaders guarded their stashes of FA-70 primers long after they were obsolete/discontinued for much the same reasons. I knew old guys who insisted on using them exclusively until supplies finally dried up - one guy in particular I knew kept them running into the 1980's. (I have a small stash of his leftover FA-70 primers and load a couple .30-06 rounds with them now and then as a memorial to that grand old man, with Surplus 4831 powder too, of course.)

If you stumble onto a stash of gov't corrosive chlorate primers and feel the need to shoot with them, go ahead they might surprise you. Just be sure to follow the barrel cleaning protocols our fathers/grandfathers adhered to afterwards and clean your bore religiously. No harm, no foul, and the brass is most definitely re-usable afterwards too.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #2 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 12:13am
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A few months ago, I dug some old FA70's out of the attic and have been using them in BP loads.   I remember getting them from DCM for about 1$/1000, including shipping by rail.

CHRIS
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #3 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 12:22am
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Phil Sharpe wrote about the FA70's, they're good hot primers however they blow salts into the grains of the barrel steel that need to be washed out with hot water. He recommended making a drilled-out case with a copper tube soldered into the old primer pocket and a funnel on the end. You'd pour a quart of boiling hot water through the barrel to get rid of the salts. If you didn't do that, the salts would rust the barrel even though the barrel was cleaned and oiled.
« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2023 at 12:27am by Schutzenbob »  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #4 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 12:51am
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rgchristensen wrote on Dec 5th, 2023 at 12:13am:
A few months ago, I dug some old FA70's out of the attic and have been using them in BP loads.   I remember getting them from DCM for about 1$/1000, including shipping by rail.

CHRIS


my buddy uses them occasionally in his Krag and cleans with nitro solvents and bores have never been damaged.
He also got them years ago for nearly nothing. 
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #5 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 4:35am
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Cbashooter

Personally, I've never used FA70 primers, but I've always heard that they were excellent primers but corrosive. My father used to tell me that FA70's were the cause for all the dark bores in Krags. This is from the IAA forum; "The F. A. No. 70 primer is a Potassium Chlorate mixture. The FA-70 primer mix is defiantly corrosive. This primer mix was adopted 19 Aug. 1918 and was used until it was replaced in 1952. During the period of 1941 to 1952, experiments with the non-corrosive primer P-4 were conducted, but the corrosive FA-70 continued in use until 1952." This is from the Firing Line forum; "Chlorate primers leave chloride salts in the barrel. Salts attract water and aggressively spread rust. Salts won't dissolve in oil so users of corrosive primers must use a water based cleaner, or water, to get the stuff out of their barrels."
« Last Edit: Dec 5th, 2023 at 4:58am by Schutzenbob »  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #6 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 8:44am
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I started my BPCR shooting with a Mason jar of FA-70 corrosive primers I bought at a gun show for $5. Most were loose but some were still in the original packaging, which resembled paper soda straws.  That was in the mid-90s and they primed ten years’ worth of experimenting, practicing and match shooting.  Towards the very end, I had a couple that needed a second snap to set them off, but the vast majority were as reliable as anything else I could buy and the blackpowder cleaning and wiping regimen with Ballistol and water took care of the corrosive aspect.

I’d be delighted to find some more (at that price), although I was nervous carrying that glass jar full of loose detonating compound around the show. I took extra pains to avoid bumping into people.

I salvage a fair amount of primers from old cartridges, mostly as a function of breaking them down for components, chiefly the rare brass.  If the primers go off, I use them in more common cases (in case they’re mercuric) and clean with Ballistol/water afterwards, whatever the load; black or smokeless.  No problems with barrel corrosion, at least so far.

I found two tins of 250 each large primers (the tops of the tins were embossed with “250”) a while back and found they wouldn’t go off.  Maybe they are mercuric; mercury fulminate doesn’t seem to age well. Bummer; but they were cheap and still interesting as curios, at least.
  
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #7 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 9:46am
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I would gladly put up with the extra cleaning required for some of those $1 per 1000-DCM primers as would many of us.
I found some 7 mm brass and dies for a friend's early Remington RBlock in that caliber.
In return, he gave me a brick of 1000 LR primers.

The GI bore cleaner found in small OD cans contained water in addition to other ingredients. Designed to help  dissolve any salts deposited in bores.

I have an 1885 HW-SS chambered in 45-60 WCF. Made in 1887. The bore is in excellent condition. Someone kept it cleaned and oiled a bit. Keep up the same regimen as 45-60
was one of the rarer calibers in the 1885 SS.
  

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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #8 - Dec 5th, 2023 at 10:14am
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Boy, that old GI bore cleaner sure was some nasty smelling but very good working stuff. What all was in it anyway?

Around 30+ years ago I was kibbitzing with "an old guy" (sorta like me now) and I espied a mystery cardboard carton gathering dust under his bench. Lo and behold it was a full case of WWII-vintage GI bore cleaner, to which he said "You want that stuff? Get it the hell out of here and welcome to it". So I did, of course. Who in their right mind wouldn't want a gross of those little cans of solvent? What to do with 144 of them? Why, every shooter I knew had double handfuls of them thrust upon them. I even, honest to God, put a can in my then girlfriend's Christmas stocking. She most emphatically did not see the humor in it.....

I still have one or two cans tucked away somewhere.
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #9 - Dec 7th, 2023 at 11:05am
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Hopefully this thread will help me out a little. I was given a bunch of -06 ammunition, its in good condition but its military and dated 42,43, and 47. What would the primers be? I pulled one or 2 of them out and seem to be RA stamped.  If they are corrosive primed, can anything be done to save the brass?
TIA
Sam
  
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #10 - Dec 7th, 2023 at 11:15am
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nuclearcricket wrote on Dec 7th, 2023 at 11:05am:
Hopefully this thread will help me out a little. I was given a bunch of -06 ammunition, its in good condition but its military and dated 42,43, and 47. What would the primers be? I pulled one or 2 of them out and seem to be RA stamped.  If they are corrosive primed, can anything be done to save the brass?
TIA
Sam


Betcha it fires with alacrity! Yes, those are primed with the old FA-70 compound, and are corrosive. But as stated before the only risk is to the steel in your gun if you don't thoroughly clean it afterwards according to accepted protocols therewith. Zero effect on the fired brass cases, use them as you would anything else more modern. (I would recommend annealing their case necks if reloading them afterwards though - more of a protocol for dealing with old possibly brittle brass than out of concern for what primers were used in them.)

Conversely you could dismantle the ammo to salvage the brass if you just don't want to mess with thoroughly cleaning the gun after shooting them. Personally I would shoot them.
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #11 - Dec 7th, 2023 at 1:15pm
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thank you for the reply. Nice to know the brass will be ok. I have experienced cracked necks before due to old brass. I do have about half a can of the old nasty smelling RBC that I will use and if and when this ammo is shot it will be in a DCM rifle. If it were not for the fact that the primers are crimped in I would consider breaking it all down but the idea of punching out a crimped in primer just isn't really all that appealing to me.
Again, thanks for the info
Sam
  
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Old 4831
Reply #12 - Dec 27th, 2023 at 4:58pm
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My earliest handloading ventures involved buying one pound paper bags of 4831 from local gunshop for $1.00.  They put up the little bags from BIG barrel of 4831.  Filled 30’06 cases to the top and seated pulled military bullets.  Didn’t need no stinkin’ powder scale.  A wonder I survived…..
  
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George Babits
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #13 - Dec 27th, 2023 at 5:17pm
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My brothers and I used to get our black powder for $0.75/pound in paper bag, or bring your own coffee can.   

George
  
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Re: Corrosive primers
Reply #14 - Dec 27th, 2023 at 9:40pm
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gnoahhh wrote on Dec 5th, 2023 at 10:14am:
Boy, that old GI bore cleaner sure was some nasty smelling but very good working stuff. What all was in it anyway?


It reminds me of the horrible stuff used in the "hot tank" degreaser that my pet automotive machinist had in the '70s.  Had creasylic acid in it, and just being in his shop for half an hour permeated my clothes so bad my wife wouldn't touch me until I'd showered and changed.   
  

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