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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Sifting BP- a shock (Read 2075 times)
condorsc
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Sifting BP- a shock
Oct 10th, 2023 at 2:31am
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I am an old shooter, but new in BP. I obtained a couple of sifting screens from an English source, for FFG and FFFG. I sifted a pound of Old Eynesford FFG and was shocked when it sifted 60% FFG and 40% FFFG. I haven't sifted anything else yet. Is this a known occurrence? Comments?
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #1 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 3:41am
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Yes, of course old enyesford is not known as the best powder. It might be of interest for you to sift some Swiss, better for you to do it to see for yourself.
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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gunlaker
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #2 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:14am
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All of my lots of OE powder have been like that.  Lots of fines.  However it does work quite well in some of my rifles.  I do primarily use Swiss 1.5.  It is far more consistent in grain size.

Chris.
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #3 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 9:46am
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Not sure why a person would want to sift powder, but it happens.
All of the powders will not sift 100%.
Olde Eynsford is a very good powder and all of my rifles but one shoot it much better than Swiss, and the one that does seem able to digest that stuff doesn't shoot it enough better to justify the expense.
  
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Lead Pot
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #4 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 10:53am
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I have to agree with Don. I like the OE powder and it shoots well for me. I also have Swiss and it shoots very well also.
Below are some workup powder load targets That I tested with OE and KIK yes the range was only 135 yards in my back yard and when I get new lots of powder I use my range during calm days to eliminate wind errors and get a good sight picture and from there I extend the distance for the final load tests. 
When the OE shoots this tight of a group it shoots well.
But I will say that I never shot a group this tight at 135 yards with Swiss but I still use it when I have it.
Kurt
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Ranch13
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #5 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 11:46am
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Kurt I miss the KIK powder, it really shined in some of my rifles, especially my heavy barrel 110 and was a decent inexpensive powder for general shooting.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #6 - Oct 11th, 2023 at 7:52am
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Lead Pot,

how are you lubing your PPB's and loads?
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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Lead Pot
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #7 - Oct 11th, 2023 at 8:35am
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SchwarzStock wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 7:52am:
Lead Pot,

how are you lubing your PPB's and loads?


I don't use any lube for the PPB's
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #8 - Oct 11th, 2023 at 10:31am
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You are shooting them dry? Dry paper is very abrasive.

What about a lube cookie?

Swabbing the bore after each shot?
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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ssdave
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #9 - Oct 11th, 2023 at 10:38am
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Doesn't surprise me.  When Goex sold it as Express, it was known that it was more of a 2-1/2 F than 2F.  That's the reason it was "express".
  
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Lead Pot
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #10 - Oct 11th, 2023 at 11:54am
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SchwarzStock wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 10:31am:
You are shooting them dry? Dry paper is very abrasive.

What about a lube cookie?

Swabbing the bore after each shot?


Yes I shoot them dry and yes paper is abrasive and why add another variable that is not needed shooting PP when you swab the bore after every shot fired.
I like the abrasion of the PP bullet  Smiley when it cleans the bore like in the photo's
I kept track of the rounds fired in this rifle by numbering the primer bricks I just used in this rifle and the count was over 21 from primer shortages in the past that I had to use them for other rifles.
Those pictures are from a new unfired rifle to well over 21,000 rounds through it. 
I like the way the paper laps the bore  Smiley
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KaiserKong
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #11 - Oct 11th, 2023 at 5:47pm
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Condors,
Do you know the grids per inch of your FF and FFF screens? I feel like I’ve seen some variation in sources of how they define the two grades. Perhaps that is also contributing to the distribution.

Lead Pot,
What type of primers do you use? Is there any wad below the bullet?
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2023 at 7:14pm by KaiserKong »  
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Lead Pot
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #12 - Oct 11th, 2023 at 7:18pm
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John Boy made a post on screening powder a few years ago with Goex powder.

Goex Express FFg– (02/17/05DE12B) 
12 mesh – Trace retained 
14 mesh – 0.35% retained 
20 mesh – 89.59% retained 
30 mesh – 9.47% retained 
40 mesh – 0.22% retained 
Through – 0.37% 

Olde E' 1.5Fg:
20 mesh - 98.163% Hold
30 mesh - 0.612% Hold
40 mesh - 0.000%
50 mesh - 1.224% Hold
60 mesh - Trace
80 mesh - Trace Passed
Regards
John

KK,
I use Fed 210 GM and yes I use a .06 wad over the powder.
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2023 at 7:25pm by Lead Pot »  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #13 - Oct 12th, 2023 at 3:49am
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Lead Pot wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 11:54am:
SchwarzStock wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 10:31am:
You are shooting them dry? Dry paper is very abrasive.

What about a lube cookie?

Swabbing the bore after each shot?


Yes I shoot them dry and yes paper is abrasive and why add another variable that is not needed shooting PP when you swab the bore after every shot fired.
I like the abrasion of the PP bullet  Smiley when it cleans the bore like in the photo's
I kept track of the rounds fired in this rifle by numbering the primer bricks I just used in this rifle and the count was over 21 from primer shortages in the past that I had to use them for other rifles.
Those pictures are from a new unfired rifle to well over 21,000 rounds through it. 
I like the way the paper laps the bore  Smiley
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Now polishing the bore is not an approach I had considered. I think you could get the same effect with a dry PPB and still use a grease cookie. I find the lube on the outside of the PPB helps to get the bullet chambered without ripping the paper. Obviously you don't hunt with that gun since you patch after each shot. Cool
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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condorsc
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Re: Sifting BP- a shock
Reply #14 - Oct 12th, 2023 at 3:45pm
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KaiserKong wrote on Oct 11th, 2023 at 5:47pm:
Condors,
Do you know the grids per inch of your FF and FFF screens? I feel like I’ve seen some variation in sources of how they define the two grades. Perhaps that is also contributing to the distribution.

Lead Pot,
What type of primers do you use? Is there any wad below the bullet?

Kaiser Kong, turns out sifting and grain size is more involved than I realized. Lead Pot's figures were obtained with a 20 mesh screen, mine with a 24 mesh screen. So, poor comparison. My screens came from England. Can't recall who picked 24 mesh, me or them. There is a coterie of folks who make their own BP. You can find them on Cast Boolits and other forums. I would think a reference to official industry standards is what is needed. Many of the folks on Cast Boolits influence the performance of their home made powder by varying the size of screen they sift with. I suspect the big companies do that, too. In addition they say that the size of the wire used in making the mesh has an effect also. My concern was that FORTY PERCENT of the OE was a faster off-grade. What effect would that have in a 45-70 or 50-70, both of which I shoot, when compressing? At first blush I would think a noticeable pressure and/or accuracy effect. Are there any accurate, scientific pubs that you and I could follow that would help? When you decide what you want, get hold of these people in England, consult with them to start with. Unlike the Canadians, they are only too happy to deal with Americans. For starters, I didn't see any evidence of export licenses (As in Canada) being necessary to send you something. Canada's Gun Store, allegedly their biggest, won't ship ANYTHING to the U.S., not even jackets or boots. However, the package of two 8" x 10" screens was opened for inspection by U.S. Customs! Jeez. Here's their information: they're The Mesh Company (Warrington) Ltd., E MAIL: sales@themeshcompany.com. WEB SITE: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links). PHONE: 44 01925 406602.
« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2023 at 3:55pm by condorsc »  
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