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Steamtractor
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Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Jul 18th, 2023 at 1:36pm
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I came home from a local gun show with this 2-trigger Frank Wesson rifle, with period scope mounts. I am thinking Mogg mounts maybe?
I suspect they may have held a tube sight, rather than a scope because the front ring will accept a 5/8-inch diameter and nothing larger. Although I understand some early scopes were that diameter.   
I would like to get a suitable tube sight or scope to install. 
The front ring has a channel cut inside for a rib on top of the tube to pass. 
Can anyone share pictures with me of proper tube sights or scopes in this type of mounting?
I know I will need to make the split block to go around the tube between the "rabbit ears".
Even better, does anyone have the items I need, and would be willing to part with them?
The rifle was tagged .32 cal centerfire.
The bore is like new, and mechanically the rifle is tight and in barely used condition, should be fun to shoot.
It's definitely centerfire and does seem to be about 32 but I am still working out what the chambering actually is.
A 32 long colt just rattles around loose in there, and a 32-20 case starts good but stops about 1/3 in, so I suspect it is tapered.
Does anyone know what round this rifle might take?
I saw some talk on the internet about a "wesson 30-30" which can be formed from a 357 max case using dies, but I know nothing definitive about it.
For sure I wont try anything in it unless I know it is a good fit and a proper load. Any specifics in that regard are welcomed.
Thanks for any info/help you guys might give me, so I can complete this old rifle and have some fun with it! 
  
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Dellet
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #1 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 2:08pm
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Looks like what might be left of a set of Malcolm mounts.

The cartridge sounds familiar, but have not been able to identify it for certain. Case being roughly .650” long and .345” diameter. 

I use a cut down 32-20 based case.

The difference would be my bore is closer to a 30 caliber. With a .307” groove.  This is in an early Stevens tip up. 

I have seen a 30-15 Wesson cartridge mentioned, but can not find much information, it was listed with a .310” bullet, 1.55” case length and base diameter of .342”. I have wondered if I might have a short version of that cartridge.

Looking forward to what others say.

Congratulations on the find, a Wesson is on my list of things to have.
  
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Steamtractor
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #2 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 7:28am
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Thanks Dellet tonight if I get time I will slug the bore and take some measurements of the chamber, see if I can't narrow it down more.
Most urgent for me is to get a 5/8" diameter scope or tube sight back on this old boy.
Sure would like to find that, I am sure one will turn up eventually.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #3 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 9:37am
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I agree with Dellet that the rear mount appears to be the remainder of a Malcolm. I have a Malcolm with a similar front mount, and part of the rear mount missing; the part your rifle has. I've been looking for the rest of the mount for years, with no luck. 
Since you have the toughest part to make, having the scope clamp for a 5/8" tube made to fit your rear mount is the easy part. Then you'll only need to find the scope.
I'd sell mine, but still haven't given up on finding a ruined Malcolm scope I can buy to get the rear mount!
  

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Steamtractor
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #4 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 2:26pm
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Can you give me details/dimensions/photos of your tube clamp, so I can machine up a close copy of the original?
That would be a major help!
I can provide you details of my rabbit ears in return, if that would help you out
  
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Steamtractor
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #5 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 6:55pm
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Looks like I lucked out- the other day I tried chambering a spent 32-20 case that was sitting on the table, which started but didn’t go all the way in. This evening I dug out a new box of 32-20. Checked one backwards and the rim is a perfect fit to the counterbore. Flipped it around, and it drops right in all the way, a perfect fit! 
No slop at all and inspecting the chamber verifies it.
I have some 112 grain .314 dia bullets, and 4198 in my powder drop. Does anyone have a super safe light loading for this combo they can suggest? Or is the Wesson frame a strictly black powder proposition? Thanks for any replies.
  
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moodyholler
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #6 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 7:04pm
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I have a form die for 30-30 wesson
. Need .357 max parent case. moodyholler
  
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YIMAIM  
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jhm
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #7 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 8:52pm
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That is a neat old rifle...


JMH
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #8 - Jul 20th, 2023 at 3:52pm
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Steamtractor wrote on Jul 19th, 2023 at 2:26pm:
Can you give me details/dimensions/photos of your tube clamp, so I can machine up a close copy of the original?
That would be a major help!
I can provide you details of my rabbit ears in return, if that would help you out


Without knowing if mine is for sure the same size as your base, I doubt measurements will help much. Your hole to slip over the scope will determine the center hole size, and the "ears" will determine the width of the block, plus the two vertical ears have the slots that determine the size of the through screw that clamps those ears to the block.
I'll get a picture taken of the block so you can see how it's built, and then you can make one to match. Only part missing on my block, and your base is the screw that goes through both to secure the height adjustment.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #9 - Jul 20th, 2023 at 4:00pm
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4198 is a great powder for larger cases, but I've never had good results with it in small cases, and none of my old Ideal manuals show any loads for .32-20 using 4198. 
I've used Unique, 2400, 4227, Green Dot, and 4759 all with good results. Of course I'd not use 4759 today, as whatever I have gets saved for .32-40, or .38-55 loads.
3.5 grs. of Green Dot is a nice mold load with a 115 gr. cast lead bullet. Red Dot at the same charge also is great.
  

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Steamtractor
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #10 - Jul 20th, 2023 at 8:10pm
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Thanks, I have 4227 here so I’ll try using that.
And yes, my plan is to make the block to fit my ears I just need to see a photo for original shape/features and finish, to copy.
My rabbit ears have the thru bolt that goes thru the block with thumb screw to tighten. Or I thought it did- is there a second one it takes that I need also? I figured this one passed thru a hole in the block below the scope tube.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #11 - Jul 21st, 2023 at 10:05am
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Steamtractor wrote on Jul 20th, 2023 at 8:10pm:
Thanks, I have 4227 here so I’ll try using that.
And yes, my plan is to make the block to fit my ears I just need to see a photo for original shape/features and finish, to copy.
My rabbit ears have the thru bolt that goes thru the block with thumb screw to tighten. Or I thought it did- is there a second one it takes that I need also? I figured this one passed thru a hole in the block below the scope tube.


No, yours has the tension screw. I just missed it when I was looking the first time. Yes, the tension screw hole would be under the tube when installed to get maximum height adjustment. It's sort of a tombstone shape piece that clamps to the scope tube. 
I'll try to get a picture today, as we're headed out for vacation, and might be a week or two if not today.
  

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Steamtractor
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #12 - Jul 21st, 2023 at 10:24am
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That’s fine I appreciate any info no rush. We can compare my ear space to your block dimension, and if it works for you I’ll give you a detail drawing of my rabbit ear and elevation screw and knob
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Wesson rifle tube sight/scope
Reply #13 - Jul 22nd, 2023 at 11:46am
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here is some  Lyman 4198 data Val. 
I've not used it in the small cases either though.But the data looks decent. I may try it this weekend.Probably count the kernels in that small case!

« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2023 at 12:07pm by Cbashooter »  
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