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dragonblood9
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original trap door ???
Mar 5th, 2023 at 8:08am
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I bought a trap door yesterday. the wood looks really rough, the metal is a nice brown, so i cleaned up the bore and its super bight with sharp rifling.  so is it possible to get original trap door with that good of a barrel ?
  
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Sure shot
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #1 - Mar 5th, 2023 at 9:28am
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It appears that it is possible as you lucked out. You might want to play the lottery! Wink
I have a few rifles that are rough on the outside but have really nice bores.
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #2 - Mar 5th, 2023 at 9:41am
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Yes it is. I've got 2 of them and have had several others. Some trapdoors have been de-milled by having the chamber gouged with a cutting torch. Most of these have near mint bores and can be repaired by competent gunsmiths familiar with trapdoors.
  
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dragonblood9
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #3 - Mar 5th, 2023 at 10:58am
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okay, maybe i wont polish it up and make it "show room" . rough looking it is.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #4 - Mar 5th, 2023 at 11:31am
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I just bought a Trapdoor last Sunday that looks unfired internally. Bore, and all mechanicals are as new, but exterior was pretty ugly from what the seller said. It had been polished out, block color cased, and new stock left unfinished. Owner passed away, and a friend was selling his stuff.
I finished the stock, and rust blued the metal. I'd have probably left it alone externally if it hadn't already had the work started.

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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #5 - Mar 6th, 2023 at 10:09pm
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There are a lot of '84's out there with really good bores. Is your's an 84? They were mostly National Guard guns, and saw little to no action. Too late for the indian wars, and in NG hands for our glorious little war with Spain. An 84 will also have the Buffington rear site that is windage adjustable. Many will have oversize bores, but a pure lead 500 grain bullet will bump up right fine with Black Powder. Good fine, hope you have fun with her.
  

"White man have very strong Medicine. Shoot today maybeso kill you tomorrow." Esa-Tai Commanche warrior
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Joe_S
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #6 - Mar 6th, 2023 at 10:14pm
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I have had the good fortune to find more than a few trapdoors with really good bores, so they are out there. Parts are generally interchangeable with a few exceptions, such as tumblers and stocks. The early actions with SN under 100,000 have narrower receivers, you have to match up a new stock with the correct receiver. the sear for the two position tumbler and the three position tumblers are different, and Cadet rifles were custom ordered so that except for lock parts, I am not sure anything is consistent on Cadet rifles, especially stocks and buttplates. At any rate, they are great rifles and under-appreciated.
If your rifle is not a collector's item , you might want to weld a tang extension and mount a tang sight.

I hope you have good luck with it!

Joe S
  
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nineteen76
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #7 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 5:59pm
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Here is one you don't see often. I took this in as partial trade on a Sharps 1863 50/70 converted carbine.
One of a reported 600 Springfield Trapdoor Sporting Rifles. These were chambered in 40/65, aka 40 2-1/2" (40/70 Sharps Straight )and 45/70. This one is in caliber .40-65, and so marked. 
During 1883 Hartley and Graham bought surplus Trapdoor rifles from the U.S. Government and had them converted (possibly by Whitney Arms Company).
Fit with a new heavy octagonal barrel (approximately #4 size and weight). Barrel length 30” with a Sharps Rifle Company Lawrence rear sight and Rocky Mountain German silver front sight. 
The original U.S. stock was reworked producing a Schnable forend with a black buffalo horn insert, filling the original wiping rod hole. The stock was checkered. Buttplate has the compartment for cleaning rods.
Stock retains faint U.S. Inspectors cartouche.   
These guns were retailed by E.C. Meacham of St. Louis, N. Curry & Bro. San Francisco, John P. Lovell of Boston. This is a great example of a late buffalo hunter’s heavy barrel rifle.






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boats
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #8 - Mar 15th, 2023 at 7:04am
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I can tell you from experience the Military can go to extremes with bore cleaning. Basic training our drill M1 rifles, with firing pins removed, had to have perfectly clean bores. And worn muzzles from cleaning rods. Growing up as a Small bore target shooter felt it was silly until I figured out it was training discipline not rifle maintenance.

Have owned a number of trapdoors most with good bores.  Probably more likely to be in good condition than newer service rifles with small bores & corrosive primers.

Boats
  
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degoins
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #9 - Mar 15th, 2023 at 7:52am
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"This is a great example of a late buffalo hunter’s heavy barrel rifle."

That's a cool trapdoor.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #10 - Mar 15th, 2023 at 11:27am
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boats wrote on Mar 15th, 2023 at 7:04am:
I can tell you from experience the Military can go to extremes with bore cleaning. Basic training our drill M1 rifles, with firing pins removed, had to have perfectly clean bores. And worn muzzles from cleaning rods. Growing up as a Small bore target shooter felt it was silly until I figured out it was training discipline not rifle maintenance.

Have owned a number of trapdoors most with good bores.  Probably more likely to be in good condition than newer service rifles with small bores & corrosive primers.

Boats


Almost all military training tells soldiers to clean from the muzzle, and they all use steel cleaning rods. So no doubt any with a little age are going to have horribly worn muzzles.
  

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Tom_Trevor assra life no.71
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #11 - Mar 15th, 2023 at 6:58pm
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Marlin guy, 45-70 Springfields were to be cleaned with an issued wooden barracks rod only the steel rod was for field use only. Must have been a large number made as they are still around, hickory rod with ball in end. I do like those heavy barrel sporters.
  
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45govt
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #12 - Mar 16th, 2023 at 1:08am
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Great photo and rifles Tom.

Here is mine
  

Thanks, Don

ASSRA Member # 4098

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boats
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #13 - Mar 16th, 2023 at 6:43am
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Used to see those Hickory cleaning rods by the dozens cheap at Richmond’s big Civil War show. In fact any Trapdoor part was inexpensive.

Remember when Turner Kirkland would pay a flat amount for any complete Trapdoor ? Think it was $ 20 dollars. Dozen years ago was flying home from Nashville. Half a day to kill before the flight drove up to Union City & visited Dixie Gun Works. Still had probably 50 Trapdoors for sale. Clerk told me there were more in storage, display all they had room to rack. Condition not so good priced high though

Boats 

  
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #14 - Mar 16th, 2023 at 7:48am
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"Great photo and rifles Tom."

+1
  
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dragonblood9
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #15 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 8:20pm
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day 1 - 20rds down range, was able to "MOM"  (minute of man).  think the eyes ain't what they were.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #16 - Mar 18th, 2023 at 10:27am
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dragonblood9 wrote on Mar 17th, 2023 at 8:20pm:
day 1 - 20rds down range, was able to "MOM"  (minute of man).  think the eyes ain't what they were.


Hopefully you slugged the bore, and got a proper fitting bullet? These having an odd number of lands and grooves need to use a micrometer to measure the diameter properly, or go a bit larger than what you measure the odd number lands diameter to get a good fit.
A lot of old Trapdoors have larger bores, and need a bullet in the .460"-.462" range to shoot small groups. And of course their sights aren't great either.
  

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dragonblood9
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #17 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 11:52am
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nope didn't slug it, just went for it. needed to hear it i know i am apostate for thinking "I'll work on groups later" Smiley
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: original trap door ???
Reply #18 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 2:43pm
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The BUffington sight is not to be sneezed at .... It is readily capable of making MOA adjustments.   I was taught the appreciation of the Buffington sight by the late Dennis Bruns, a fellow who was known as "MR Trapdoor", and habitually won the military matches in the BP Raton NM championships.  

Some folks set the Buffington sights with a dial caliper, but it is also easily done by eye, using the existing graduations, and much quicker to do it on the firing line that way.

I have found that hte best bullet is one that fits the fired case, never mind about the bore/groove dimensions.   I was able to do very well with a bullet of around 400 gr, and a light load of BP, giving about 1100 fps, using amaranth seed as a filler.   Full "war loads " in a 9# rifle will beat you up un-necessarily.

CHRIS
  
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