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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Long Range Bullet Nose Shape (Read 1741 times)
Flatlander
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Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Feb 15th, 2023 at 12:15pm
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Having acquired a pair of Hoch nose pour paper patch moulds I am wondering how the flat nose where the spruce is cut off will affect downrange performance. I understand the nose pour is to hypothetically get all air pockets in nose rather than base for superior balance. Will the flat be much of a determent as opposed to a more rounded design? 
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yamoon
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #1 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 12:35pm
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I believe the word is meplat. I don’t shoot over 200 meters so can’t answer your question. Wikipedia does have a small technical article on how a meplat effects down range performance.
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Ranch13
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 1:01pm
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Assuming the length of the bullet doesn’t exceed the capability of the twist and velocity and the alloy is hard enough to prevent nose slump
It will likely take maybe 5 minutes more elevation than a base pour at the same distance from 600 and further
  
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 1:18pm
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5 minutes more elevation for a potentially better balanced bullet seems like a fair trade-off. Now it's time for me to get the lead pot out and cast up some for practical experiments. Thanks all. Now I feel better about buying the used moulds 
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 1:29pm
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I don’t know that you’ll get a better balanced bullet
But you may have to adjust your techique to get the bases filled well and not get the air bubbles trapped in the nose and keep the under side of the sprueplate sharp enough that it cut the spruce nice and even
  
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Flatlander
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 2:10pm
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I have read many times about cast bullets and trapped air pockets. It's a given with poured lead. Swaging is the only way to eliminate. Pope did his nose pour moulds to place trapped air in nose rather than base to have a better balanced bullet. Granted, he only shot at 200 yards so I was concerned about longer range. After Hoch closed most nose pour moulds companies are gone. I believe Brooks will still make custom nose pour but don't know of any others. The Hoch moulds I bought were reasonable in cost  enough to give a trial. I see everyone seems to be jumping on Money bullet profile so this will be something different for me to play with. I enjoy doing things against the grain so to speak.
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 2:41pm
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I'm a pretty big fan of Brooks original postel bullet nose, about the same profile of BACO's creedmoor bullet nose. I also like the BACO bullets premoney bullet that followed awfully close the Metford nose profile.
Interestingly enough the original postel bullet Zack Taylor had BACO make the copy of has an awful lot of similarities to the now popular money bullet, and at a quick glance looking at a flat of them one would almost mistake them for a money bullet.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #7 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 2:49pm
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Didn't Mann do some horrible things to bullet noses without making significant changes to the results?
  
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 3:52pm
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I have been shooting a JP Mould in my .45 caliber rifles.  It has a round nose, and that seems to be the common denominator.  But, I also shoot a nose pour paper patch in some of my rifles.  I have not tested past 600yds, and there does not seem to be much difference in elevation.  About 4 minutes more.
  
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westerner
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 4:00pm
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I still use a flat nose bullet in my 45s. The Saeco 530 gr bullet. Me and Chuck tried the long elliptical money and postel style bullets way back in the 80-90s but just could not get them to shoot accurate. 
I get admonished for using the Saeco occasionally so I tell people the flat nose squares the bullet up against the air to keep the bullet stable. I also add that the round nosed bullets dip and dart around when they get down to the speed of sound. Seldom do I shoot past 500 meters.  

I don't like a long unsupported nose on any lead bullet.  I have a couple spitzer bullets that shoot very well in my 45s.  At 1000 yards the Lyman spitzer is over the top of the target with a Saeco 530 sight setting. 

The Mathews tapered spitzer shoots extremely well in one of my 45s. Trouble with it is, it has to much taper so that only about half the bullet is supported in the bore.
« Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2023 at 4:06pm by westerner »  

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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 4:40pm
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For shooting a greaser out of a 45-70 the Saeco 645 is a very good bullet from powder burn close to 1000 yards.
When you dig back into what the old dead guys had to say about shooting the "long nosed" bullets and then try it yourself, it doesn't take long to figure out why they liked the alloy to be from 15-1 or even as hard as 11-1.
I like my Brooks, KAL, and Old west nose pour adjustable moulds. They especially come in handy to play around with bullet length, and then order a base pour of the same configuration.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #11 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 5:24pm
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Flatlander wrote on Feb 15th, 2023 at 1:18pm:
5 minutes more elevation for a potentially better balanced bullet seems like a fair trade-off. Now it's time for me to get the lead pot out and cast up some for practical experiments. Thanks all. Now I feel better about buying the used moulds 
Flatlander


You can get excellent bullets from a good base pour mold.  Nearly everyone I've shot with use some form of Buffalo Arms money bullet although there are a few exception.  They can be incredibly accurate at long range.

One interesting thing that a lot of long range shooters ( at least on the internet Smiley ) haven't paid attention to is that Dave Gullo, arguably the best LR black powder shooter, sells the molds he uses.  His catalog even shows pictures of targets he's shot in testing.   This is a very good guide for selecting a good LR bullet. 

Like Don said, those Saeco bullets with the meplat do shoot well.  I have only used them at Silhouette and can say they need more elevation than a comparably weighted "Money Bullet" but are deadly accurate.  More elevation means lower BC which means more sensitivity to variable winds, depending on a few other variables of course.   

The variation of elevation with changing winds is a big factor in shooting a good score.  Even in midrange at only 600 yards. 

Chris.
 
  
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #12 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 5:28pm
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LOL Dave is beatable, but you better be on top of your game and hope like heck that John doesn't make the match to spot for him. But that's not good either cuz John is a heck of a guy to hang out around too.
  
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #13 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 6:13pm
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I do have more than my share of 45 cal  greaser moulds including a first pre production BACO  Creedmoor, an original pre1950 Lyman Postal, a Paul Jones  Creedmoor and several others I have played with in the. past. I thought it would be interesting to jump into the diaper wrapped slugs. Should be a whole new set of challenges to deal with. It is for a new to me   Shiloh #1 recently acquired. Moved to Tucson area and am starting over.
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Re: Long Range Bullet Nose Shape
Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 7:11pm
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Keep the bullet length to 1.42 or a touch shorter stay on top of your fouling control and once you get it all worked out you maybe hard pressed to even think about casting a greaser again
A couple of the best bptr shooters around do hang out at the Tucson range
Maybe we’ll get to see you at the Desert International next month?
  
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