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texasmac
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Sorting .22LR Ammo
Feb 14th, 2023 at 11:25pm
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In a recent article in Guns & Ammo on the benefits of sorting .22LR ammunition Dave Emary came to a few conclusions.  Dave is Hornady's Senior Ballistician.  To make a long story short, he concluded that measuring rim thickness is the least worthwhile sorting method.  Based on his experimenting the most significant factor is bullet runout (concentricity), and bullet head height being the next most important.

It should not be a surprise that runout is a contributing factor since sorting for runout is a common technique with high power precision shooters, but it’s not typically associated with rimfire ammo .  He noted that he’d never heard of measuring .22 ammo head height which is the measurement from the base of the cartridge case to the top of the bullets driving band.  It’s an interesting article.  Since I have all the necessary gauges including a RCBS concentricity gauge I recently completed measuring 15 cartridges of several brands.

Attached is a spread sheet with the results.  As expected, the more expensive ammo was better than the cheap stuff.  But there were a couple of surprises.  I expected the cheap Win Wildcat to be worse than the data suggested & was a little surprised to see how well the RWS R50 turned out.  It was no surprised that the Win. bulk plinking ammo was the worst of all the stuff I have.

Although Dave’s article I mentioned there’s little or no value in sorting by rim thickness, it’s easy to do.  And based on other articles, weighing .22 ammo is not considered beneficial, but I was also curious.  Determining head height was quick using using Hornady’s comparator with .22 insert.

Measuring run-out (concentricity) was by far the most tedious measurement. Concentricity gauges are made for larger cartridges.  I was able to use my RCBS Case Master Gauging Tool but it took some practice to develop the necessary technique due to the small size of the cartridge.  Setting up the spread sheet, entering all the data required a good bit of time, but was necessary to utilize the statistical calculations.  I was not about to do it using a hand calculator.

Overall this exercise was very time consuming.  I did it out of curiosity & have no plans to continue sorting .22 ammo.  And I do not plan to test fire the sorted ammo.  BTW, I use CCI Std. Target for silhouette chickens & pigs, Eley Match for the turkeys & rams.

Wayne

Eagle eye Bill Lawrence spotted a major error so I corrected the data & posted it later in this thread.
« Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2023 at 11:22am by texasmac »  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #1 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 11:46pm
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the results seem to match my weekend rimfire testing at my friends range 20 uesrs ago.We used my Anschutz 2013,Remington 37 and Remington 40x.We weighed and also sorted by rim thickness and chronographed all shots.We decided the best lots of Eley shot best and saw no improvement in any of our sorting with any ammo. The chronographed showed the shots with wide velocity variations printed off shots. Except for the SK ammo in gold boxes. That stuff just seemed to hit the same POI even with wide velocity variations.After the tests I settled on CCI  STD.As it was pretty good and as a "B" team smallbore shooter it was as good as I needed.
  
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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 2:47am
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A dog's age ago I did a sorting study aimed at determining whether swaging cheap ammo (think Paco Kelly, but I used my own tool).  Tedious doesn't begin to describe it.
  

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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 9:58am
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uscra112 wrote on Feb 15th, 2023 at 2:47am:
A dog's age ago I did a sorting study aimed at determining whether swaging cheap ammo (think Paco Kelly, but I used my own tool).  Tedious doesn't begin to describe it. 

still have one with a couple different nose shapes and dimensions I had machinist  make me.Don't recall if the results were with it though.Ill have dig it out,I forgot about it.
  
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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 10:00am
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Using the Eley Match cartridges as an example, with all 15 cartridges having a head height between 0.720 and 0.730, how can their average height be 0.681 rather than 0.72x?  (The same discrepancy applies across the board.)

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 10:47am
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I would suggest he might have a different conclusion, if in a different chamber.

Base to driving band length basically determines engraving depth of the bullet into the rifling. Headspacing off the bullet instead of the rim. 

Same cartridge in two chambers with different rim depth or headspacing may have the bullet engraved in one but not the other. This is why in the world of 22 RF, you can buy reamers designed for specific ammo.

Many people that do sort rimfire ammo can often tell you the rim thickness they found works the best for a certain brand.

Without a doubt, nothing helps a crooked bullet.
  
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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 11:16am
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Eagle eye Bill, thanks for catching that.  It's because I screwed up and used the wrong correction factor for the comparator gauge & the average calculation included one to many values.  Rather than the correct 1.0026" I used 1.026".  Thanks for catching my error.  Through the magic of spread sheets it was easy to correct all the data as follows.

Wayne
  

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uscra112
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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #7 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 12:00pm
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Cbashooter wrote on Feb 15th, 2023 at 9:58am:
uscra112 wrote on Feb 15th, 2023 at 2:47am:
A dog's age ago I did a sorting study aimed at determining whether swaging cheap ammo (think Paco Kelly, but I used my own tool).  Tedious doesn't begin to describe it. 

still have one with a couple different nose shapes and dimensions I had machinist  make me.Don't recall if the results were with it though.Ill have dig it out,I forgot about it.


I took the worst ammo then known to man...Thunderbolts....and tested in a bone stock 10-22.  Treated ammo reduced group sizes by half.  It did nothing but ruin better ammo.  Nor did it do much when the treated ammo was fired through my Ballard, which has a tight chamber.  Weight sorting them revealed that they were using bullets of two different average weights.  Probably two machines that weren't synchronized, and the bullets mixed together. 
  

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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 12:13pm
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When I shot .22 matches I found the most worthwhile sorting for my time put in was simply weighing cartridges. Anything more didn't make it worthwhile for me, and just got too time consuming for the return. But weighing quickly and easily culled out rounds that I'm sure would have been flyers.
  

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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 12:58pm
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At some point, weighing and sorting (by any means) becomes irrelevant.

My wife shoots in American Rimfire Association (ARA) matches. Over the years we have found that the only predictor of competition performance is actual downrange testing. 

And, we have found that "killer" ammo is very,very rare and has no distinguishing measurable characteristics.  Killer ammo just is - we don't know why.

How rare is killer ammo?  In close to twenty years of shooting, we have tested hundreds of different lots and have found exactly one lot of truly excellent ammo and four or five lots of very good ammo.

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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 1:00pm
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Cbashooter wrote on Feb 15th, 2023 at 9:58am:
uscra112 wrote on Feb 15th, 2023 at 2:47am:
A dog's age ago I did a sorting study aimed at determining whether swaging cheap ammo (think Paco Kelly, but I used my own tool).  Tedious doesn't begin to describe it. 

still have one with a couple different nose shapes and dimensions I had machinist  make me.Don't recall if the results were with it though.Ill have dig it out,I forgot about it.


Some years back, I was playing with a US Model 1898 Gallery Practice Rifle, the Springfield Armory answer to the Stevens-Pope replacement barrel.  IIRC, it had a groove diameter of .2265 and an 18" twist.  Paco Kelly made me a tool that would cover the large diameters.  Tedious is a good description for both the tool and the rifle.

I then got a Waltz die that would size bullets to .226.  It worked in a standard C-type loading press, with a shell holder that fit .22 rimfire rims.  Easy to use. I could resize 10 or 15 cartridges in the time that it took to resize one with the PK tool.  It also came with a note that said "for cheap ammo only.  Do not use with good ammo."

I tried the Waltz tool on 2 boxes of the German-made Wolf Match Extra.  That was my choice for "most points per $".  Resizing destroyed the accuracy.  But resizing worked with stuff like Remington Thunderduds.
  
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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #11 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 1:47pm
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Accurate Shooter published a test of 55 different 22lr loads and the results are interesting, at least I thought so.
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The link doesn't work very well but an internet search will find the article.
  

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Re: Sorting .22LR Ammo
Reply #12 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 5:57pm
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Years back the whole concentricity deal ran wild throughout the RFBR world until it was shown with  a match chamber it yielded no benefit.
Playing with mid priced ammo still yields mid performance ammo. 
Depending on your requirements, there is simply no substitute for match ammo. Fully recognizing not everybody is willing to drop $ on match ammo but all the other stuff…….you’re kidding yourself.
That said, lots need to be matched with guns.
Even then…..it shoots or it does not, and if you get good, selected  stuff……pull it and shoot it.
  

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