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CptCurl
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Re: Reduced Charges in Large Cases
Reply #15 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 8:21am
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Back in the day people often used Cream of Wheat as a filler.   I have (many years ago) used it shooting cast bullets with reduced loads in a .375 H&H Mag.

More recent literature seems to frown on this practice.

In the past couple of decades, the "knowledgeable" writers (e.g. Ross Seyfried, Sherman Bell) advocated the use of Dacron as a filler.  I have used it with success, though now you see reservations concerning this practice.

Backer rod is something I have used successfully, and it is much easier to use than Dacron.  Much neater after shooting also!  Yet, there are those who caution against this practice.

The great bugaboo is getting a ring in your chamber at the base of the bullet.  Evidently, a shock wave can originate inside the cartridge when fired, which reflects off the base of the bullet with enough force to emanate radially at that location with destructive force.  I have seen chambers with such rings.

I know of nobody who has solved the mystery.  Much has been written, yet there still are more questions than answers.

I will say that Cream of Wheat still has a useful function in "blowing out" cases to a larger chamber.  For example, I use it to blow out .470 Nitro Express empty cases to the parent case - the straight walled .500 3-1/4".  The .500 case no longer is in production, but the .470 is common.  Load it with 11 grains of Unique, fill the rest with Cream of Wheat, plug with a balled-up piece of paper, and practice your dry-firing technique.  It's loud enough to need ear protection, but there is no recoil.  Here are some photos of the result:

First, the cartridge I need as pictured in the Eley 1893 catalog:

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Next, a photo of my loaded cartridge with the custom emulation of the original Eley 480 grain "Solid (Cannelured)" bullet (their nomenclature for a "greaser"):

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What you are seeing is a .470 NE case blown out straight.  No filler - it has 142 grains of "holy black."  I do put a grease cookie behind the bullet, and my loaded bullet is greased in all unexposed grooves.

The result?  A load that duplicates the original Eley factory load from 1893 to use in my Dickson double rifle (Not a single shot, but an original rapid fire assault rifle Cheesy).

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Curly
« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2023 at 8:45am by CptCurl »  
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westerner
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Re: Reduced Charges in Large Cases
Reply #16 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 9:12am
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I've never used a filler to fireform brass. Seems it would save lead at least. Here are cases blown out with 14 gr 4227, no filler.
« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2023 at 9:20am by westerner »  
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oneatatime
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Re: Reduced Charges in Large Cases
Reply #17 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 1:35pm
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For fire forming I use COW and light charges of pistol/shotgun powder (way too cheap to use good 4227!). For reduced BP loads I use amaranth seeds as they are hard enough to be able to compress the BP below them if desired (no wad between). For very light loads of smokeless (like Unique) in large BP cases I use a couple of grains of kapok tufts (no wads necessary).
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Reduced Charges in Large Cases
Reply #18 - Jan 30th, 2023 at 11:16am
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Depending on how much a case needs to stretch when fire forming dictates how much powder, or whether I use filler to fire form the case. To get my .30-40 Krag cases blown out to .40-50SS before shortening I need filler. If I don't use filler they never quite form out enough to not need more expanding.
I took apart some loaded .50-140 rounds done by a professional reloader using IMR4198, and found two 1/2" long rolls of toilet paper slid in over the powder until the bullets seated against the fillers. Never shot any, so not sure how they'd have worked. But guessing whoever did them must have known what they were doing.
  
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Mal
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Re: Reduced Charges in Large Cases
Reply #19 - Feb 4th, 2023 at 8:11pm
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MarlinGuy,
               Just home from the range,2206H (4895) shot pretty good 30gns Brooks 2 dia 380 gn went 1 1/2” vertical ,willup the load,Rec starting is 33 gns@ 1423 fps. I also tried my Lyman pill.410678 also 380 gns 27 gns of 2207(4198) it went MOA @ 100.
In all a pleasing result.   Cheers Mal in au.
  
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Redrighthand
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Re: Reduced Charges in Large Cases
Reply #20 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 4:48pm
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I use 5477 in big cases with no filler. No problemo.
  
Mike Brooks
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