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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house? (Read 1683 times)
BillOregon
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Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Jan 20th, 2023 at 7:22pm
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Have about 50 .348 cases formed and trimmed to .44-77, but the rims are .076-.077 and fit the Shiloh chambers, but not the C. Sharps chambers, which take a thinner .067 rim -- like the .45-70. This must have been the reamer my gunsmith used. So I need to find a "cartridge machinist" who can uniformly shave .01 off the forward edges of the rims on these cases. Anyone out there wants to raise their hand or direct me to a good source for this work? There will be cookies ... and biscuits for the dogs, if ye have 'em.
  
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JerryH
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #1 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 7:57pm
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Any chance you can have your gunsmith run the reamer in to accept your cases? That would seem to me to be the easiest thing to do.
  

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BillOregon
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #2 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 10:24am
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Jerry, it would involve at least $80 worth of shipping back and forth from Texas to Idaho, where John Taylor did the chamber and barrel -- probably using the reamer that C. Sharps uses -- and then more for John's time. The receiver and barrel have been beautifully polished, cased and blued by Allen Springer at Snowy Mountain. 
An alternative, suggested when I was searching for brass, was to simply form it from slightly undersized .45-90 brass.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #3 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 11:05am
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Make or have a rim swage made.  Had the same issue with my .310 cases converted from 32-20, the rim swage made short work of it.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #4 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 11:07am
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Have you seated a primer and checked to see if by chance it seats below flush? I had a bunch of donor brass for my original Rolling Block in .44-77 that was too thick at the rim, but primers sat well below flush when seated. So I just turned off enough on the headstamps until the block closed and they worked. It was a lot easier, and simpler than turning the leading edge of the rim, and didn't require a mandrel to hold the case. Just flush the cases into the chuck, and run the cutter in. Then just repeat quickly until all were done. Anyone near you with a hobby lathe could turn the rims in a few minutes if the primer depth allows it.
  

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gnoahhh
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #5 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 11:32am
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BillOregon wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 10:24am:
Jerry, it would involve at least $80 worth of shipping back and forth from Texas to Idaho, where John Taylor did the chamber and barrel -- probably using the reamer that C. Sharps uses -- and then more for John's time. The receiver and barrel have been beautifully polished, cased and blued by Allen Springer at Snowy Mountain. 
An alternative, suggested when I was searching for brass, was to simply form it from slightly undersized .45-90 brass.


Couldn't you run the reamer in by hand without removing the barrel? A mere .010" isn't too much to do in that regard (but admittedly I've never done it with a big fat BP cartridge, but have done so with a few short chambered .30-06 barrels that I finish reamed to set minimal headspace after fitting them to receivers). You could do it while sitting watching Jeopardy!
  
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BillOregon
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #6 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 11:35am
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Gert, that is an interesting option. I had not even heard of a rim swage die. Hope all is well with you!
Vall, a primer seats perfectly flush as near as I can tell. 
One of the chaps over at Castboolits has offered to do the lathe work for me, so for now, my problem is solved.
Gnoahh, the reamer is in Idaho and I am in Texas ...
  
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BillOregon
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #7 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 11:40am
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Just as an addendum, when the donor brass is available, Buffalo Arms forms cases for .44-77 in three listed rim thicknesses: .085 for the original; .076 for Shiloh chambers; and .067 for C. Sharps chambers. I don't recall this much variation in any other chambering, although I know a lot of the British large-bore cases came in thick and thin rim dimensions as the British gunmakers switched over from the black-powder era cartridges to the smokeless era.
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #8 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 12:06pm
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You might want do a chamber cast,
The early CSA chambers for the 44 bn cartridges were designed to use 45xx cases
  
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BillOregon
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 2:46pm
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Hold the phone, fellas. After comparing my Cerrosafe chamber cast with the brass I bought, the shoulders did not match. After running a couple of the reformed .348 cases into the .43 Mauser form die, they slide right in and chamber beautifully. 
I had been relying in part on cartridge specs from COW 11th edition, and of course these usually don't include shoulder and neck lengths, just the various diameters.
Well, that's my excuse, anyway ...  Embarrassed
  
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Ranch13
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 3:02pm
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I use the lee 43 mauser dies for a lot of my 44-77 reloading 
The 43 Spanish sizes the neck down to far for everything except for drasticallyunder sized patched bullets
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #11 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 4:03pm
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I also have used .43 Mauser dies to reload all my .44-77 brass. Works great.
Glad you figured it out before you had too much reworking done!
  

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Lead Pot
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #12 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 4:24pm
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Just lay some 220 grid sand paper on a smooth surface and figure 8 the case head down to what you need to close the breach block.
I did this with my .44-90 bn using .082" rim thickness the Bell .44 basic brass had before Jamison started making brass or HDS had some.
Then just ream the primer pockets deeper or use pistol primers. 
Or find a friend that has a lathe with a collet chuck, that works best and chuck the case with the rim against the collet and just the traverse cuts. 
I just used that a lot for a large number of cases.
Also I used a mill with two V blocks sitting on the parallel bars and run the end mill over the case head. I liked doing it this way better than using the lathe. It's just a matter loosing the vise lift the case out or just dropping it in and tighten the vise.         
  
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #13 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 4:38pm
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Back in my Lovell days, when I didn't know any better, I used to run a file over the heads of any cases which would not chamber.  I guess the primer pockets were deep enough that I got away with it.  I also recall reloading cases with split necks in my first .219 Wasp because I didn't know how to make new cases.  Still worked OK on woodchucks.
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Is there a "cartridge machinist" in the house?
Reply #14 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 5:09pm
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It seems ridiculous to have three different rim thicknesses. When I sent my .44-77 rolling block to C. Sharps for rebarreling, I specified it to be chambered for Jamison brass that has a ..073" - .074" rim thickness. He had no problem doing that. This is the rim recess of the original Remington barrel. The recess measures about .090"!
  
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