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sportslube
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Rolling block
Dec 4th, 2022 at 9:15pm
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Friend has two remington rolling blocks,
1.  50-70 New York militia,  what smokeless powder if any could he use?
2.  #5 action what would be a good smokeless caliber to be put on the action?
Thanks
  
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Bulseyetom
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #1 - Dec 4th, 2022 at 10:01pm
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Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists lots of loads for the 50/70.  I use 5744 powder in my Rolling Block 50/70.  What  use will the #5 rifle be used for.  I think I would stick with a rimless case as it is a pain if you chamber a rimmed cartridge and the extractor is not behind it.  Then you are in a pickle as you have to use a ramrod to tap the loaded cartridge out so that you can start all over.  Don't ask me how I know!  There is a fix for that but I have never had a problem with rimless cartridges extracting.  The downside is that cartridges based on a 30-30 case have less area then the 7x57 size cases so you can load the smaller size cases to somewhat higher pressure.  I have a #5 in a 6mm-30/30 Improved that is a fun rifle to shoot and also to hunt with.  I also had a #5 in 250 Savage that was fun to shoot.  There is certainly nothing wrong with the 7x57 but modern loads are too much for the #5 so thinking about the next owner and how he might use factory ammo I never chambered for that round.  The main thing is to keep the pressure to low levels of around 39,000 psi cup for the standard 7x57 size case and maybe 44,000 for a 30/30 size case maximum.  Tom
  
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sportslube
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2022 at 10:04pm
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Thanks
Bill
  
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sslocknut
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #3 - Dec 5th, 2022 at 9:48am
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Bill,
I had my #5 fitted with a 38/55 barrel. Use it for silhouette matches.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #4 - Dec 5th, 2022 at 11:03am
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I've had good results with IMR4198, or H4198 in large capacity older cartridges. I use it in almost all my larger case loads.
I've got a couple smokeless actions I've built up in older rimmed cartridges. As with any of these older cases using rotary vs. sliding extractors you just have to watch as you chamber a case to keep the extractor ahead of the rim, but it's not tough.
I have one converted to a sliding extractor at 6 o'clock under the chamber, and a T shaped sliding extractor. That's the finest gunsmith alteration I've ever seen, and it works flawlessly, and without thinking about it.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #5 - Dec 5th, 2022 at 12:11pm
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35 Remington would  be nice.
  
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John Rigby
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #6 - Dec 5th, 2022 at 8:41pm
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Anything but black is the most egregious heresy!!!!  Smiley
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #7 - Dec 5th, 2022 at 8:48pm
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John Rigby wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 8:41pm:
Anything but black is the most egregious heresy!!!!  Smiley


Guess I'm a bad boy, as I shoot more smokeless than black in my old single shots. Smiley
But at least my chamberings are all BP era cartridges.

  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #8 - Dec 5th, 2022 at 10:10pm
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 8:48pm:
John Rigby wrote on Dec 5th, 2022 at 8:41pm:
Anything but black is the most egregious heresy!!!!  Smiley


Guess I'm a bad boy, as I shoot more smokeless than black in my old single shots. Smiley
But at least my chamberings are all BP era cartridges.



me too.
a recommended load here of 30g Of Buffalo Rifle in my 50-90 is just clean shooting magic!
  
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1isenough
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #9 - Dec 5th, 2022 at 10:43pm
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Something to consider is the 25-222 (Copperhead).  It is rimless, so you will need to add spot weld some metal onto the extractor, then temper and cut your extractor rim.  It is a smaller diameter cartridge, so it leaves a generous amount of steel around the cartridge.  It is pretty easy to chamber - a 222 reamer first for headspace, then a 25 cal neck/throat reamer.  Does very well up to 100 grains (jacketed and lead), so more of a varmint or small game round.  Fun to shoot - accurate and very little recoil.
  
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Hiwall55
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #10 - Dec 6th, 2022 at 3:35pm
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Can't go wrong with a 38/55.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #11 - Dec 6th, 2022 at 5:56pm
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Hiwall55 wrote on Dec 6th, 2022 at 3:35pm:
Can't go wrong with a 38/55.


ASSRA needs a "like button" to click on!
  

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Re: Rolling block
Reply #12 - Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:15am
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sportslube wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 9:15pm:
Friend has two remington rolling blocks,
1.  50-70 New York militia,  what smokeless powder if any could he use? I load 22 grains 4198 in my 50-70 1867 RB.
2.  #5 action what would be a good smokeless caliber to be put on the action?
Thanks


2. If you want to shoot your #5 safely, you need to learn to neck down 30-06 or 8mm Mauser cases. No.5 chambers are cut too deep for modern cases, which causes case head separations  after 4-5 firings. Your clue is a bright ring about 1/2" ahead of the case head. What you are doing in necking down is forming a case that fills the gap I mentioned in front of the shoulder. Your press must be mounted on a surface that  can take heavy stress. Keep a floor jack handle to slip over the press handle for leverage and to make your sizing more precise. Trust me on this. Run your press ram up all the way and screw your 7mm Mauser FL sizing die (minus the decapping rod) all the way down on the shell holder. Lock the die ring. Apply case lube to the neck and run it up until the neck is sized, you can feel it happen. Withdraw the case and remove most of the lube. Put a LITTLE on the case wall. Reintroduce the case and lean on the press handle, enough to size JUST A BIT of the case wall. The jack handle here makes you much more precise. Withdraw again and inspect. If you've used too much lube you'll see a number of little darts around the new shoulder surface. You're trying to find a balance between the case seizing in the die from lack of lube and producing these darts. That's why you size and inspect, size and inspect. When you've sized a few, cut off and trim to 2.22 case length. Open the action, and try the case. If the hammer doesn't fall, size the case again, it may go. If not, you must grind a TAD off the die mouth. Run the die back down to the shell holder, loosen the ring, and lock the ring down again. Size the case again and try to chamber it. If the hammer won't fall, Grind the die mouth again. Screw the die down on the shell holder again and tighten. Repeat until it falls. Now you've got it.  You're of course adjusting your cases to your individual rifle. The key is sizing and grinding SLOWLY. You absolutely don't want to reintroduce that gap in front of your case shoulder. Now you need to learn to anneal. It will extend your case life tremendously. And don't fire 7mm Mauser ammo in your #5, It's dangerous. PM with any questions.
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:43am by condorsc »  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #13 - Dec 10th, 2022 at 4:38am
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condorsc'
i thought you said the #5 had deeper chambers? you are describing setting the shoulder back for a shallower chamber. .
unless it's just I am misunderstanding?

my 7mm roller I made cases from 30-06 but the die was backed off due to longer headspace. The problem I also had was the neck diameter of the fired case could nearly take a .308 bullet! case necks don't last long with those chambers  Expansion was about 25 thou' IIRC.I swear the neck also had a strange double shoulder.after firing. I gave up on loading for them.
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2022 at 4:57am by Cbashooter »  
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George Babits
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Re: Rolling block
Reply #14 - Dec 10th, 2022 at 9:24am
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ccomdorsc

I've been using 30-06 brass in my 7mm rolling blocks since the 1960s.  I use only GI brass as it is heavier than the commercial brass.   Anyway, you are working too hard the way you are sizing the 30-06 down to 7mm in two strokes.   Yes.   Set the ring on the 7mm sizing die so it is full length sized.   Then back the die way off and just size the cases down a little bit at a time.  Run the case in, back it out, turn the FL die down a turn, and run the case in again.   No need for a cheater on the press this way.  Once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty quickly.   And, yes, inspect the neck and shoulder at each stroke.   Go really light on the lube.  I've never bothered to anneal them,  probably should,  but my brass has lasted a long time without it.

George
  
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