Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Antimony content for cast bullets (Read 1508 times)
bohemianway
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 646
Location: Andover, MN
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Antimony content for cast bullets
Oct 1st, 2022 at 10:32am
Print Post  
I picked up a quantity of (I assume) reactor lead bricks. If they are pure lead great. But if they are the 4% Antimony then my question is if it is still a good choice for bullets vs lead/tin?

Thank you,
Charles
  
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #1 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 10:55am
Print Post  
If it's only lead and antimony you'd have to add maybe 2% tin to get it to cast well, and by my alloy calculator you'd have something a little harder than 10:1.  About like sweetened clip-on wheelweights.   Maybe not ideal for Schuetzen or muzzleloaders, but the pistol guys would gobble it up.  Ditto the deer hunters.   Brinnell ~13.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bohemianway
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 646
Location: Andover, MN
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #2 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 12:46pm
Print Post  
I am hoping it is the pure kind since a car key tip lightly pushed into a block left a small indent. Anyway, I will have it Assayed (someone here mentioned scrap yards have the tool) since it is over 400 2x4x4 blocks.

  
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #3 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 1:41pm
Print Post  
Wholly Toledo!  How many trucks will you need to move that?
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4041
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #4 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 6:07pm
Print Post  
When I started casting decades ago I used alloys with antimony with the same Brinell hardness of 20:1 alloy made using linotype. 
It resulted in severe leading within 30 shots. 
On the advice of expert cast bullet shooters I switched to 20:1 lead:tin alloys and can easily shoot 100 shots without any leading.

Antimony and hard alloys appears to work well for hand guns.
However antimony also makes the alloy too hard resulting in a poor seal of the base when fired and results in gas cutting around the bullet. 
This results in barrel leading. Also the variation in gas pressures results in poorer accuracy in rifles.

With a 20:1 alloy you can easily shoot plain base grease groove bullets at 1850 fps (without a gas check) if you use a good quality lubricant.

However paper patched bullets are able to use the harder bullets since the paper creates the seal and the lead alloy does not touch the barrel.
« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2022 at 6:13pm by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3865
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #5 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 6:52pm
Print Post  
I would expect reactor blocks to be pure as there is a chance of irradiating any impurities.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16091
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #6 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 7:06pm
Print Post  
I've mixed linotype into my pure lead for many years to cast bullets for all my rifles and handguns. It has 4% tin, and 12% antimony. I would think if it was going to harm my barrels, it would have done so by now. I see no issues, and accuracy is still great. I've heard people say antimony is bad, but haven't ever rear any scientific reason why?
I mix it 2 parts pure lead to 1 part linotype.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bpjack
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2758
Location: East Olympia, WA
Joined: May 18th, 2008
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #7 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 7:32pm
Print Post  
a quick and simple hardness test is to get a 6B drawing pencil from your local art supply store and sharpen it into a wedge.
Scrap the surface oxidation from your lead and see if the pencil will dig in.  If so it is close enough to pure lead.

Jack
  

ASSRA # 11318
just a bit of a hoot.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #8 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 8:03pm
Print Post  
I've certainly cast and fired enough bullets with antimony in them to have no qualms about it.  Leading is more a matter of bullet fit than composition, IMHO.  

n.b. Maybe I am among the chosen few, but I've never leaded a rifle barrel.  So what do I know?
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Deadeye Bly
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1057
Location: Stephens City
Joined: Feb 25th, 2011
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #9 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 8:39pm
Print Post  
Good catch, That's over 5000lbs. Several years ago I bought 6000lbs of radiation bricks and they were pure lead. They were 2 x 4 x 8. Sold most of it but still have a little.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bohemianway
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 646
Location: Andover, MN
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #10 - Oct 1st, 2022 at 9:26pm
Print Post  
worse yet, it was an all or none, so there is also 60 (20lb) bags of shot which  I believe is pure lead because of the flat spots. Once I figure out what it is I will most likely sell some since I will never use it all. I just wanted some pure lead for paper patch, muzzle loading,  and paper cartridge projectiles. Plus for scheutzen and grease grooves to a known Pb/Sn since I have a supply of Tin.

Charles
  
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4020
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #11 - Oct 3rd, 2022 at 10:59am
Print Post  
When I was going to a variety of Schuetzen matches, I heard often that Antimony should be avoided and only straight lead and tin alloys should be used,  I started out with 25-1 pure lead to pure tin because I had the good fortune to have access to plenty of both.  The ratio came from the old Roberts and Waters single shot book.  That alloy worked so well for me, I’ve stuck with it for about 25+ years now. All other things being done correctly, barrel leading/accuracy loss just are not issues for me. 

Charlie Dell did a lot of experimenting with heat treating bullets, which requires antimony to work. For some reason we never discussed this, in spite of all the times I “sat at his feet” and learned about schuetzen.  I also don’t remember seeing it discussed in his book, though it probably was.  Perhaps some of the “family” can chime in with that information. 

Froggie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rgchristensen
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1089
Joined: Jan 2nd, 2014
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #12 - Oct 3rd, 2022 at 2:49pm
Print Post  
Green_Frog wrote on Oct 3rd, 2022 at 10:59am:
When I was going to a variety of Schuetzen matches, I heard often that Antimony should be avoided and only straight lead and tin alloys should be used,  I started out with 25-1 pure lead to pure tin because I had the good fortune to have access to plenty of both.  The ratio came from the old Roberts and Waters single shot book.  That alloy worked so well for me, I’ve stuck with it for about 25+ years now. All other things being done correctly, barrel leading/accuracy loss just are not issues for me. 

Charlie Dell did a lot of experimenting with heat treating bullets, which requires antimony to work. For some reason we never discussed this, in spite of all the times I “sat at his feet” and learned about schuetzen.  I also don’t remember seeing it discussed in his book, though it probably was.  Perhaps some of the “family” can chime in with that information. 

Froggie


FROGGIE:

Charlie wanted to cast with a little antimony, a little tin, and even less arsenic, so as to have a heat-treatable alloy.  We discovered that this very "lean" alloy was leaving voids in the bullets.   He finally ended up swaging the bullets to form and heat-treating them to desired hardness.  Don't remember any other details.....guessing that was ~ 25 years ago.

The late Hank Stromberg was another experimenter.   Hank made a mould for a bullet with a square cross-section, so he could run samples thru the heat-treating process with his other bullets and measure the hardness on them directly.

CHRIS
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fred Boulton
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 801
Joined: Jan 6th, 2007
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #13 - Oct 4th, 2022 at 12:05pm
Print Post  
Leading of the bore is caused by hard, undersized bullets. Bullet composition is not really relevant.
The guys who claim that their leading problem is caused by antimony have obviously never shot a .22LR.
All .22 manufacturers use a significant percentage of antimony in the mix.
Fred
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mal
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 220
Location: Adelaide SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Joined: Dec 5th, 2012
Re: Antimony content for cast bullets
Reply #14 - Oct 4th, 2022 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
I agree with Fred, have used a depleted Lino brew for all my cast shooting .22 to 30 cal. Have tested it at 20 bn,it’s slightly less than printing spec@ 22 bn mainly due to the Softer  spacers found in printers type. Only exception is my 40/65 RB ,I use 20/1. Never had a leading issue in any using the Lino ,always sized 1-2 thou. Over grouve dia.  Mal.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint