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ball powder for original pope (Read 1915 times)

critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 270 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	ball powder for original pope Sep 5^th, 2022 at 10:55am	Print Post
	I am working on shooting an original pope barreled ballard and want to use a ball powder for ease of throwing loads on the Harrel...anything I need to shy away from or any suggestions for loads with a 190 gr bullet with #9 or 300mp? I am getting the gun on paper with 4227 but not a fan, especially in a Harrel. Someone told me to steer clear of double based with originals yet I have not had anyone repeat that. thanks in advance Mike

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16093 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #1 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 11:23am	Print Post
	Might help if you listed the cartridge your Pope barrel is chambered for.

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critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 270 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #2 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 11:27am	Print Post
	yeah my bad 32-40

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #3 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 12:55pm	Print Post
	This is a target shot in a Stevens Pope by my Friend Jack and it is a left hand gain twist. He also shot a similar target using the same load of 14.2 grains of 300 MP and if you cannot read the load data please let me know. 14.2 grains of either H-108 or 300MP is also what I used with a slight adjustment of a few 10ths. depending on the temperature for the day. Both of these were shot at 200 yards. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	« Last Edit: Sep 5^th, 2022 at 1:04pm by JLouis »
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #4 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 1:08pm	Print Post
	In case you missed it I also added the 300MP target to my prior post. I might also add that I two found that the magnum primers also provided the best results for myself.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #5 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 1:16pm	Print Post
	Also not knowing if your action is forged and or cast Marlinguy could also help you out to determine that. The last thing that I would want you to do is to cause any harm to you or your rifle if it is indeed a cast action and those loads might not be safe for your own use.

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critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 270 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #6 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 1:43pm	Print Post
	Perfect John. thank you. I have a forged action and as I have said in op I have shot 4227 all the way up to 14.5 with no hint of problems just not the best results and the 4227 meters poorly in my opinion. 300mp will get a try at bat. thanks again mike

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #7 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 3:27pm	Print Post
	You are so very welcome and I might also add. I have shot some very nice targets with 4227 in the past. But I also found it to be the most inconsistent powder that I have ever tired. Outstanding one day and not at all for several outings more in between and then another one good one so I gave it all to a friend. What he planned to use for it I could not tell you but there are folks that do sware by it.

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gnoahhh Oldtimer Offline Posts: 807 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Joined: Mar 31^st, 2010	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #8 - Sep 5^th, 2022 at 6:55pm	Print Post
	Interesting. This is the first complaint I've heard of 4227 not metering well in a Harrell. I use nothing but 4227 in my .32-40's (including a Pope) and find that it meters nicely in mine. I've shied away from ball powders in my vintage guns because of statements I've read that the hotter flame from that kind of powder can hasten throat erosion. True or not, I don't know, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16093 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #9 - Sep 6^th, 2022 at 10:02pm	Print Post
	gnoahhh wrote on Sep 5^th, 2022 at 6:55pm: Interesting. This is the first complaint I've heard of 4227 not metering well in a Harrell. I use nothing but 4227 in my .32-40's (including a Pope) and find that it meters nicely in mine. I've shied away from ball powders in my vintage guns because of statements I've read that the hotter flame from that kind of powder can hasten throat erosion. True or not, I don't know, but I prefer to err on the side of caution. The only powders I've ever had even small issues with in my Harrells measure are stick powders. Any flake powders I've used metered very consistently, and no issues.

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #10 - Sep 7^th, 2022 at 12:55pm	Print Post
	32-40 is right on the edge of what you can meter accurately with the Harrell schuetzen measure. I think the Harrells Bench rest measure does a better job with short stick powders. 40 Rod


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7545 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #11 - Sep 7^th, 2022 at 5:21pm	Print Post
	My two Harrell’s throw 4227 fine with some exceptions. Rush the stroke they will throw light. Pause just a bit open they hit the mark exactly. Just loaded 240 fixed 38/55 with 17 grs 4227. Every one thrown in the scale pan, check weighed then funnel into the case. Zero light charges. It’s worth trying check weighing, it will drill your stroke. Might ask why I check weigh when the measure throws accurate. Club offhand matches are squadded relay. 40 shots 200 yard on gongs. Hit or miss, most matches end in ties with shoot offs. One off shot likely to be out of top 3. Check weighing eliminates any doubts on point of impact. Boats
	« Last Edit: Sep 7^th, 2022 at 6:57pm by boats »

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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #12 - Sep 7^th, 2022 at 5:35pm	Print Post
	Throat erosion is a matter of chemistry, not temperature. High nitroglycerine powders leave too much unused oxygen in the end gases, which reacts with the steel to form brittle micro-particles of iron oxide, which get washed away by the next shot. Single base powders leave oxygen-poor end gases; the free nitrogen forms nitrides, and the mechanism continues as before. According to the source from which I cribbed this information, modern double-base powders are more neutral, and so do not promote erosion nearly as much.

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critter68 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 270 Location: Wisconsin Joined: May 31^st, 2018	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #13 - Sep 7^th, 2022 at 7:18pm	Print Post
	Thanks uscra112. Info that I was looking for. mike

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jfeldman ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1082 Location: Imperial Beach, Ca Joined: Nov 5^th, 2005	Re: ball powder for original pope Reply #14 - Sep 7^th, 2022 at 7:55pm	Print Post
	I see another 250-10 on your resume, Mike. Congratulations! What was your load? Regards, Joe


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