Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's (Read 2057 times)
MerwinBray
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


Aw Gees

Posts: 945
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: Apr 17th, 2004
Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Jul 21st, 2022 at 7:25am
Print Post  
I've been looking for a new toy and would like to know some thoughts from others who may have more experience than I on the above listed actions. The guns I am looking at are all in 8.15X46R, a round I have no experience with, but finding a good load and bullet is half the fun for me. They are all configured as off hand guns, though the Hoch looks as if someone may have tried to make it useable for offhand and bench. 
I'd like input on the pluses and minuses of the three systems. I love the original German stock work and craftmanship of the German Martini style gun. In a perfect world, I'd just get all three, but the pocket book doesn't agree. Any input is appreciated.
  

Great Plains Precision Rifle Club
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4112
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #1 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 9:51am
Print Post  
The Hoch was a not as finally machined firearm developed for Schuetzen shooting that was a very accurate falling block due to its fast lock time due to it's striker action. The lever was sloppy but the block locked up tight and was still very accurate. The trigger was not adjustable and did not have a easy let off like the more precision machined Adyt with a set trigger. The Martini was a bit heavier action and usually had double set triggers. Single set or double set triggers are much preferred for shooting offhand with less chance of pulling the rifle off target from your trigger release. The Hoch was a cheaper less precisely machined action designed to encourage shooters into the Schuetzen sport which shot well but had limitations for better offhand shooting.

A rifle with a poorer trigger forces you to train for better follow through after a shot.

I started with a Hoch which served me well until I upgraded to actions with set triggers.
« Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2022 at 10:03am by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yamoon
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


NRA Life, ASSRA , GGCA,
MCA

Posts: 937
Location: Junction City Kansas
Joined: Feb 11th, 2012
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #2 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 11:04am
Print Post  
When the weather cools, you will find me at Mill Creek in Desoto shooting my German schuetzen rifles. All are 8.15x46 if you would like to try them. No Adyt but several other systems. I generally shoot a System Concurrenz. All are DST.
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MerwinBray
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


Aw Gees

Posts: 945
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: Apr 17th, 2004
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #3 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 11:27am
Print Post  
Yamoon,

I may take you up on that! I grew up in DeSoto and I have a friend who is a member at Mill Creek who takes me along from time to time. I appreciate the offer.
Jon
  

Great Plains Precision Rifle Club
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
waterman
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2869
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #4 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 1:34pm
Print Post  
I don't know where we are with obtainable 8.15x46R brass, but the Aydt actions I have seen will accept cases made from .30-30 etc. brass without doing anything to the rim.  My very early Martini requires the real thing.  Cases made from .30-30 must have the rims turned down, maybe thinned.

With today's prices and shortages, I'd pick an Aydt.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yamoon
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


NRA Life, ASSRA , GGCA,
MCA

Posts: 937
Location: Junction City Kansas
Joined: Feb 11th, 2012
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #5 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 2:50pm
Print Post  
True, but with an Adyt there is no rim recess so 30-30 rim diameter wouldn’t need reducing. From memory I believe rim thickness difference is about .005, I have a primer pocket truing tool I use to deepen the primer pockets after thinning, with the low pressures we shoot, I have not experienced any problem. I wish I could find some RWS 8.15x46 brass, last I checked, everyone was out.
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
jfeldman
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1088
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
Joined: Nov 5th, 2005
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #6 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 6:10pm
Print Post  
The Hoch has to be the most basic and simple action out there if that matters to you.  The trigger IS adjustable, although not a set trigger.  The later ones were made by Meacham and were improved over the original kits.

Regards,
Joe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Cbashooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1592
Location: Eastern Wa.
Joined: Mar 31st, 2018
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #7 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 6:50pm
Print Post  
don't overlook the Swiss Martini rifles that were recently imported. One I have is a 7.5x53(big throat GP90 chamber) and I use a stop ring bullet.the other has the tight GP11 chamber but shoots a breech seat Pope style baseband real well.
I also have one in 41 Swiss that's showing promise. It's a smaller frame hunting type rifle only slightly bigger than a Cadet action.
shown are the two 7.5 rifles. they are pretty heavy rifles. I just ordered a base from Earle to throw on an old Fecker.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yamoon
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


NRA Life, ASSRA , GGCA,
MCA

Posts: 937
Location: Junction City Kansas
Joined: Feb 11th, 2012
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #8 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 8:19pm
Print Post  
I very much like the Swiss martinis, particularly the ones with the micrometer adjusted sight mounted on the side of the action, but I have too many rifles now.
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4112
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #9 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 11:41pm
Print Post  
The trigger IS adjustable, although not a set trigger.  The later ones were made by Meacham and were improved over the original kits.

I had a Meachem Hoch action and the trigger was NOT ADJUSTABLE for trigger pull. It had an adjustment to align the sear angle.

Some people purchased a replacement trigger system for their HOCH and it was trigger pull adjustable but I do not recall the name of the replacement trigger system.

Monty Branson had one installed on his HOCH.
I believe it was a CANJAR Single Set Trigger.
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2022 at 12:35am by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11706
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #10 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 11:44pm
Print Post  
My Meacham Hoch trigger is adjustable. Came that way.
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4112
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #11 - Jul 21st, 2022 at 11:51pm
Print Post  
The adjustment was to set the sear angle but did not allow much for changing trigger pull.

I managed to get mine to 9 ounces trigger pull but it took delicate reduction of the sear angle through the removal of metal.

Ken Richey and Fred Parkin also changed the sear on their Meacham HOCHs for reduced trigger pull.
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2022 at 8:55am by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smoke
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 752
Location: San Diego
Joined: Feb 24th, 2013
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #12 - Jul 22nd, 2022 at 12:24am
Print Post  
Let's see, we're comparing a single trigger, with some possible adjustment, with German 4 and 5 lever double set triggers?

I've handled and shot a lot of American schuetzen rifles, and with the exception of one Zischang Ballard, I've never touched a set of American double-sets as nice as a well tuned German or Swiss set.

Hardly a fair contest.
  

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amatuers built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11706
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #13 - Jul 22nd, 2022 at 4:57am
Print Post  
For target shooting I'll take the simple American set triggers over the complicated European triggers every time. American triggers are faster, simpler having fewer moving parts. 
The European triggers are wonderful mechanisms though. 

Plain single triggers have given me the most grief. I have three rifles at this time that need trigger work, all plain triggers. Two Ballards and a Stevens.

My Hoch trigger has needed only one adjustment since 1996. Everything wears out eventually. (sears)  Sad

  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tim_s
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 821
Location: 13066
Joined: Oct 11th, 2006
Re: Thoughts on Aydt, Hoch and German Martini's
Reply #14 - Jul 22nd, 2022 at 8:33pm
Print Post  
The Aydt all the way. Classic German, just fits wonderfully well offhand. The set triggers on the good ones are works of art especially the ones detachable by lever. Even the way they take down is neat. Mine is somewhat rare with several special features so I’m spoiled.
  

“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint