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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter (Read 1942 times)
Cbashooter
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Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Jun 10th, 2022 at 2:48pm
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I've been playing  with a Ruger #3 with a Ron Smith barrel in 256 mag. With H110 and a Barnett 120g  bullet with a .262 base tapered to 255 my groups are all pretty much under an inch and the good ones sneaking under half that a 100 yd. I had loaded some in fixed ammo sized. 258 and had pretty decent accuracy. I decided to try the same bullet breach seated. And what I did was turn my barrel into a lead mine. Repeated the experiment this morning in fixed ammo they do no they do not lead but breach seated they lead like crazy.

  
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Premod70
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #1 - Jun 10th, 2022 at 3:25pm
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What’s the seater you’re using and the depth of the seat in relationship to the barrels throat. My guess is the bullet is not sealed properly and the barrel is suffering from gas cutting the bullet.
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #2 - Jun 10th, 2022 at 3:33pm
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Premod70 wrote on Jun 10th, 2022 at 3:25pm:
What’s the seater you’re using and the depth of the seat in relationship to the barrels throat. My guess is the bullet is not sealed properly and the barrel is suffering from gas cutting the bullet.


I played with the smaller diameter bullet seating and forward in the throat but it didn't seem to help.

It's a Weber seater. 

  Quite obvious the bullet is not sealing properly when breach seated. In fixed ammo it is surprising to me that it did not lead.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #3 - Jun 10th, 2022 at 7:40pm
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why not use the bullet that is shooting well- the big one?
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #4 - Jun 10th, 2022 at 7:55pm
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calledflyer wrote on Jun 10th, 2022 at 7:40pm:
why not use the bullet that is shooting well- the big one?


That's what I am using but being that it shot reasonably well in  fixed ammunition I thought it would give it a try. It surprised me that a gas cut severely breech seated but jumping out of a case into the tapered throat with fixed ammunition it did not.

This is what it's been doing (good groups)with that Barnett bullet breach seated mind you there's a bit of wind I didn't quite catch but it's definitely showing promise at a 100 yd. I've shot a little bit at 200 and right now a bit under 1.5" is where I'm at for the best groups.
Now that I've got it narrowed down I will start changing small variables and shoot 10 shot groups. It is a number 3 in 256 win mag so it's not like it's cutting edge.
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2022 at 8:17pm by Cbashooter »  
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JLouis
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #5 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 12:06pm
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When breech seating the bullet and then knocking it back out does it show any engraving at all taking place.
To see if that bullet is actually making a gas seal, seat a bullet and use a primed case only insert into the chamber and then pop the primer. Count about 15 drop the breech block and the trapped case pressure will back the case back out of the chamber.
  

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Schuetzendave
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #6 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 12:22pm
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When breech seating you have to inserts the bullet so the base of the bullet is fully seated and sealed.

At least 1/2 of the base band needs to have land grooves in it to achieve the proper distance of inserting the bullet.

Failure to do so will result in gas cutting around the side of the bullet and result in leading.
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #7 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 12:56pm
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what's the mystery is how fixed ammo isn't gas cutting jumping the gap.
Thats what I'm having trouble figuring out.
« Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2022 at 1:13pm by Cbashooter »  
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gunlaker
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #8 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 1:33pm
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That is odd.  The fixed is sized .258" but the BS bullet is unsized at 0.262"?   If so is it possible that he base band is too large and the bullet is getting shaved when being breech seated? 

Chris.
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #9 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 1:52pm
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gunlaker wrote on Jun 11th, 2022 at 1:33pm:
That is odd.  The fixed is sized .258" but the BS bullet is unsized at 0.262"?   If so is it possible that he base band is too large and the bullet is getting shaved when being breech seated? 

Chris.


Breech seat.262 base no leading .breech seat .258 base (base 1/2 engraved) leads. 
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #10 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 1:57pm
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Gas cutting may be occurring from using too narrow of a bullet being used.
Confirm your groove-to-groove diameter.
I always breech seat bullets .002 " wider than the  groove-to-groove diameter.
Also if bullet alloy is too hard then gas cutting happens faster.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #11 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 2:04pm
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What alloy are you using?
  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #12 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 2:07pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 11th, 2022 at 2:04pm:
What alloy are you using?


20-1
  
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Dellet
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #13 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 2:19pm
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Try seating the 258 bullet shorter, less into the chamber.

What’s likely happening is the base of the fixed ammo is bumping up in the throat to say 259-260 then sizing back down before it enters the grooves.

Seating the bullet shallower will allow that to happen, the base will be in a larger diameter portion of the taper. It may not be accurate, but will answer the question of what is happening if the leading stops. 

Just sizing a bullet to 259 may stop the leading, but won’t really answer why the fixed load does not lead, but the seated load does.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Lesson learned fixed vs breech and bullet diameter
Reply #14 - Jun 11th, 2022 at 3:09pm
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Myself I have been down this road before. 
Not trying to take away from anyone's advice by any means.
But what I did was to fully engrave the entire length of the bullet and just beyond its base.
But I would also recommend that you do the bullet gas sealing test that I had mentioned in a previous post before you even try to take it out and to shoot it.
If it does not seal and this is just myself I would not spend anymore time with trying to breech seat that bullet. 
  

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